A mix of Lockheed and Bendix brakes?? 1951 f3

[Baron_Bergamot]

So on my search for more information on my new old truck I found out from a very knowledgeable member, Stu, that . . .

"Sounds like you have the early data plate, so you might also find that you have the early Lockheed brakes vs later Bendix brakes.

One way to tell is the location of the brake handle. If it is located in the left footwell it is an early truck, or to the right of the shifter it is a late production truck.

This obviously will matter when ordering parts, and is in a large way important because the Lockheed rear drums are 14” i/d while the Bendix are 12” i/d. The Lockheed drums are NLA while the Bendix are available."

I sought to replace the 'widowmaker' RH5s with some 16" front and 16.5" rears from a later 1950s F250 but when I went to measure my rear drums they are... 14". Denoting Lockheed brakes BUT and this is the bit that confuses me... my brake lever is on the right of the shifter.

Either I am reading something wrong or this has the bendix lever with lockheed rear drums??

As you can see in the pics the lever is definitely right of the shifter but the drums by my eye absolutely measure 14". Am I missing something here?

[truckdog62563]

The Bendix drums are 12” inside diameter. Lockheeds are 14” inside diameter. Are you simply measuring outside diameter? You clearly have the emergency brake drum on the transmission as would be Bendix. And there is no brake cable in your picture which would signify a Lockheed.

Not sure you’re gonna be happy with 16.5s. More common to use 16s both front and rear. Stu

[NealinCA]

You have Lockheed style, as you can see the two adjusting bolts in your picture, at the 2-1/4" and 12-3/4" marks on your tape.

[truckdog62563]

Originally Posted by NealinCA

You have Lockheed style, as you can see the two adjusting bolts in your picture, at the 2-1/4" and 12-3/4" marks on your tape.

Of course I disagree with this person. Stu

[Baron_Bergamot]

Originally Posted by truckdog62563

Not sure you’re gonna be happy with 16.5s. More common to use 16s both front and rear. Stu

I have found another set, Ford Econoline e350 15" wheels. Which I assume fit as they are 8x6.5 as well. You gotta search high and low for this stuff in the UK. Its hard to come by.

Seems to me its Lockheed rears then, probably early model. I have read somewhere the Lockheeds are a pain in the ass to adjust, might be why the truck sat so long unused the previous owner did say that the brakes needed looking at.

[Ggmac]

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Lockheed rear . Agree , has the 2 adjusters with springs to adjust each shoe . A picture of the backing plate will confirm.

[truckdog62563]

Yup, I retract the above posting. I just put a tape measure on my 1947 Tonner with 14s, and on both my 51 and 52 with Bendix. Yours looks to be a mixture of them. What I posted originally about the features of each era still holds true. Your truck has either had a transplant or is perhaps a transition build having both configurations. Stu

[truckdog62563]

In view of the above, I’ll ask if the 16.5s you found will clear the rear drums. Stu

[rotorwrench]

Where the truck was originally manufactured may make the difference. Ford of Canada did things differently than Ford USA in more than a few ways. The UK likely only had the Fordson Thames trucks.

[Baron_Bergamot]

So I have since taken the drum off the passenger side rear as the brakes were binding heavily and found out that the wheel cylinder rear piston was seized solid. And stamped all over it was "Wagner Lockheed USA" and the drums are bang on 14" id.

Looked to me like someone had already had a go at sorting the brakes as the shoes looked new as were the cylinder seals and gaiters. Just looked like water ingress past the gaiters. So I cleaned them all up and plan to reinstall them.

Interestingly as well, I had assumed all the wheels were 17" RH5s but the fronts are actually one piece 16s. So that's half the wheel issue already solved! Happy days.

I think you may be right Stu that this might be on a changeover year maybe.

[Baron_Bergamot]

Originally Posted by rotorwrench

Where the truck was originally manufactured may make the difference. Ford of Canada did things differently than Ford USA in more than a few ways. The UK likely only had the Fordson Thames trucks.

USA this one, made in Richmond, Virginia.

[truckdog62563]

When you get that far you might see what you find on the fronts. If they are Lockheed too it probably would say that the truck was a transition build. If they are Bendix it could say that the rear was swapped at some stop along the way during its prior life. Stu

[JHFORD51]

I believe that in 51 the e brake moved from the lever on the cowl to old school on the side of the trans. Probably let Ford standardize the 4 speed trans on F-2 to F-6 except for the mount which changes height depending on F-2/F-3 and F-4 to F-6.

I also wonder if during the production year Ford moved to Bendix as running change. I want to say I have "heard" mid-year but I have no papers to prove that.

[Baron_Bergamot]

Originally Posted by truckdog62563

When you get that far you might see what you find on the fronts. If they are Lockheed too it probably would say that the truck was a transition build.

I did get the fronts off actually as the passenger brake was binding heavily and pulled the wheel cylinder off to find Lockheed stamped on the casting. So it does appear to be Lockheeds all round. And are noted in the book as "single anchor self energising" or something like that.

However, apart form being left stranding which I'm almost certain caused the seize ups, all of it it in very serviceable condition. Shoes look to have been changed recently, gaiters and seals actually in very good condition, brake fluid also not like dehydrated pee, nothing is rusted solid so I think with some reconditioning they should be good to go... or rather, stop. Hopefully.

[Bob C]

Those fronts look like Bendix brakes.

[JHFORD51]

x2 on the Bendix style brakes. You are fortunate to find good drums! The wheel cylinders are still made as is the master cylinder and hoses. You should be back in the stopping business soon.

Don't let the Wagner Lockhhed cast into the wheel cylinder fool you; its Bendix style brakes with a replacement cylinder made by Wagner Lockheed. Not confusing at all right???

[Baron_Bergamot]

Originally Posted by JHFORD51

Don't let the Wagner Lockhhed cast into the wheel cylinder fool you; its Bendix style brakes with a replacement cylinder made by Wagner Lockheed. Not confusing at all right???

Nooo not confusing at all! Couldn't be simpler. Well, it looks sevicable by my eye so it;; all be going back on getting vacced down and she'll stop like she should. Just attending to some welding in the cab at the moment.