The Ford Barn

BillCNC · 07-19-2022, 09:42 PM

Hey All,

I'm cleaning up my new 221 flathead and I found a couple of cracks around the drivers side water pump. Can they be fixed, and if so, how much?

Regards
Bill

petehoovie · 07-19-2022, 09:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BillCNC

Hey All,

I'm cleaning up my new 221 flathead and I found a couple of cracks around the drivers side water pump. Can they be fixed, and if so, how much?

Regards
Bill

deuce lover · 07-20-2022, 01:28 AM

Better strip the entire engine down before you go further. Its likely cracked elsewhere.

pistonbroke · 07-20-2022, 10:18 AM

Sad to to see but those look like freeze cracks to me. If so there are probably more you haven't found yet. Tim

Karl Wescott · 07-20-2022, 10:29 AM

1. CAN the cracks be repaired?
2. SHOULD the cracks be repaired?
3. WHEN is the best time for repair?

A. Is this a running motor or a core for rebuild?
B. Are the cracks stable or progressing?
C. Are there any oil, coolant, or combustion gas leaks?

If the motor is running with good compression and no abnormal leaks, and the cracks are stable, then leave as is. Monitor for progression of cracks and leaks but enjoy the car. A failed repair could destroy a perfectly functional running motor.

If its a core, by all means consider having the cracks welded by a competent welder familiar with welding cast iron. Remember the costs of repair may exceed the current price of a good core.

Bored&Stroked · 07-20-2022, 11:14 AM

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

Those are most likely freeze cracks and as others mentioned, when you have them one place, you usually have them in other places. In many cases they are fatal in that the block is compromised in too many places to really fix.

I would closely inspect the oil pan rails (where the oil pan bolts too) - especially around the area of the center main cap. Usually if there are freeze cracks in other places, the oil pan rail will crack along its length. Also, check on the outside of the block on the sides (like around all the exhaust ports) - see if you see any cracks in these locations.

To me, you're now in "no mans land" - where the only way to know that this block/engine is good is to tear it apart and have it magged and then pressure tested. This starts to get expensive and I'd only do it if you really want to run this motor and know that it can be reliable (or not).

The cracks you showed could be fixed with 'pinning' - I wouldn't be afraid to do that at all. BUT, it is the other potential cracks that I'd be worrying about. If the pan rails are cracked, I consider them to be "fatal" - I won't invest time/money into a block with these issues.

Best of luck and sorry to see what you just showed . . .
B&S

BillCNC · 07-20-2022, 12:05 PM

I don't mind spending time on this because I'm calling it getting an education the quick way, and getting educated is never free.

I paid $225. for the motor, but I told him I'd give him $300 for it if he removed it from being a generator and that I only wanted the engine and radiator. It took him 9 hours to release the engine and to drop it off at my house. 9 hours in 100 degree weather to make that extra $75.

I spent another $100 on an order showing up today. An oil filter, book, a pan gasket and one dome and two boots for the distributor.

I'm still going at it with the wire wheel on the outside and haven't found anything that's on the same side as the crack. I have yet to do the right side.

Total investment so far, ... $400.

Before I have the cracks welded, I'm going to fire it up first to see where I'm at. If it runs like crap, I' guess I'll have a $400 boat anchor.

Regards
Bill

cas3 · 07-20-2022, 12:34 PM

If thats the only cracks they could be stitched easily. However, could be more as all have stated. I once was going to fire up a motor that looked like an old rebuild, or at least a " rattle can " rebuild. once I had everything hooked up and ready to go, the last thing was put some water in it. Sadly, I could hear water running into the oil pan ! I ran it anyway since it was ready to go, then later found one cylinder cracked from top to bottom. Wide crack, like pushed from freezing. It ran better than one would think !

07-20-2022, 01:28 AM	#3
deuce lover Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Southern France Posts: 5,837	Re: Found An Issue Better strip the entire engine down before you go further. Its likely cracked elsewhere.

07-20-2022, 10:18 AM	#4
pistonbroke Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2021 Location: Perry Mo. Posts: 714	Re: Found An Issue Sad to to see but those look like freeze cracks to me. If so there are probably more you haven't found yet. Tim

07-20-2022, 10:29 AM	#5
Karl Wescott Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Oregon Posts: 1,538	Re: Found An Issue 1. CAN the cracks be repaired? 2. SHOULD the cracks be repaired? 3. WHEN is the best time for repair? A. Is this a running motor or a core for rebuild? B. Are the cracks stable or progressing? C. Are there any oil, coolant, or combustion gas leaks? If the motor is running with good compression and no abnormal leaks, and the cracks are stable, then leave as is. Monitor for progression of cracks and leaks but enjoy the car. A failed repair could destroy a perfectly functional running motor. If its a core, by all means consider having the cracks welded by a competent welder familiar with welding cast iron. Remember the costs of repair may exceed the current price of a good core.

07-20-2022, 11:14 AM	#6
Bored&Stroked Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Central Ohio Posts: 5,723	Re: Found An Issue Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) Those are most likely freeze cracks and as others mentioned, when you have them one place, you usually have them in other places. In many cases they are fatal in that the block is compromised in too many places to really fix. I would closely inspect the oil pan rails (where the oil pan bolts too) - especially around the area of the center main cap. Usually if there are freeze cracks in other places, the oil pan rail will crack along its length. Also, check on the outside of the block on the sides (like around all the exhaust ports) - see if you see any cracks in these locations. To me, you're now in "no mans land" - where the only way to know that this block/engine is good is to tear it apart and have it magged and then pressure tested. This starts to get expensive and I'd only do it if you really want to run this motor and know that it can be reliable (or not). The cracks you showed could be fixed with 'pinning' - I wouldn't be afraid to do that at all. BUT, it is the other potential cracks that I'd be worrying about. If the pan rails are cracked, I consider them to be "fatal" - I won't invest time/money into a block with these issues. Best of luck and sorry to see what you just showed . . . B&S

07-20-2022, 12:05 PM	#7
BillCNC Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2017 Location: SoCal Desert Posts: 842	Re: Found An Issue I don't mind spending time on this because I'm calling it getting an education the quick way, and getting educated is never free. I paid $225. for the motor, but I told him I'd give him $300 for it if he removed it from being a generator and that I only wanted the engine and radiator. It took him 9 hours to release the engine and to drop it off at my house. 9 hours in 100 degree weather to make that extra $75. I spent another $100 on an order showing up today. An oil filter, book, a pan gasket and one dome and two boots for the distributor. I'm still going at it with the wire wheel on the outside and haven't found anything that's on the same side as the crack. I have yet to do the right side. Total investment so far, ... $400. Before I have the cracks welded, I'm going to fire it up first to see where I'm at. If it runs like crap, I' guess I'll have a $400 boat anchor. Regards Bill Last edited by BillCNC; 07-20-2022 at 12:17 PM.

07-20-2022, 12:34 PM	#8
cas3 Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Beverly Kansas Posts: 5,303	Re: Found An Issue If thats the only cracks they could be stitched easily. However, could be more as all have stated. I once was going to fire up a motor that looked like an old rebuild, or at least a " rattle can " rebuild. once I had everything hooked up and ready to go, the last thing was put some water in it. Sadly, I could hear water running into the oil pan ! I ran it anyway since it was ready to go, then later found one cylinder cracked from top to bottom. Wide crack, like pushed from freezing. It ran better than one would think !