The Ford Barn

baba · 02-25-2022, 11:10 AM

Trying to set the timing on my 29 coupe and the crank will not engage. I'm guessing something is out of alignment but can't figure out what or why. The business end of the crank passes into the opening but does not go in far enough to engage. Any ideas?

Gary WA · 02-25-2022, 03:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by baba

Trying to set the timing on my 29 coupe and the crank will not engage. I'm guessing something is out of alignment but can't figure out what or why. The business end of the crank passes into the opening but does not go in far enough to engage. Any ideas?

front of engine may need to raise or lower,what motor front mount do you have?or wrong crank handle

Bob C · 02-25-2022, 04:25 PM

Are you saying the hand crank is not long enough to engage the ratchet nut or
the engine is to high or to low .

bobbader · 02-25-2022, 08:04 PM

Many years ago there were accessory front motor mount springs. The ones above the front crossmember were cone shaped and had rubber bumpers inside them .............. supposedly to absorb shock. Under the crossmember, where the motor mount stud cames through, rather than a third compression spring there was a thick rubber donut with a wide flat washer and castle nut .............. again to absorb shock. These springs and rubber pieces set the front of the engine just a bit too high for the crank wrench to line up with the crank ratchet. Take a flashlight to the front motor mount springs above the front crossmember. If they are anything but cylindrical in shape, this may likely be the problem.

brokenspoke · 02-26-2022, 06:07 AM

Just put the car in gear and rock to
TDC

Fhane · 02-26-2022, 07:28 AM

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

I do not disagree with the above, but. It might not be a Model A crank, just a lookalike. I have seen hand cranks at swap meets that are a bit larger in diameter than the Model A. Compare to a known crank that works

nkaminar · 02-26-2022, 07:58 AM

This will not fix the crank engagement issue. Depending on how stiff the engine is you can sometimes rock the engine back and forth with the fan by temporally tightening the fan belt by pushing it in with your hand. A light spring on the plunger will insert it into the dimple for you while you are occupied turning the engine over. If you have good compression you can remove the spark plugs to make it easier to turn the engine with the fan. It turns easier when near TDC.

katy · 02-26-2022, 11:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bobbader

Many years ago there were accessory front motor mount springs. The ones above the front crossmember were cone shaped and had rubber bumpers inside them .............. supposedly to absorb shock.

My CCPU had those in it when I got the truck, the rubbers inside the springs were as hard as concrete.

baba · 02-27-2022, 02:16 PM

I wish I had another crank to compare mine to. I will do some more examination to see if I can answer any of the above questions.

Gary WA · 02-27-2022, 09:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by baba

Trying to set the timing on my 29 coupe and the crank will not engage. I'm guessing something is out of alignment but can't figure out what or why. The business end of the crank passes into the opening but does not go in far enough to engage. Any ideas?

Right crank handle

baba · 03-01-2022, 11:06 AM

Thanks Gary, I am pretty sure I have the wrong crank.

baba · 03-04-2022, 10:42 AM

Have given up on the crank and will remove the plugs so I can turn the engine over by hand to do the timing. I have tried very witch way to understand why the crank will not engage with no luck.
Turns out my crank seems to be correct according to Garys diagram. Only thing I cant see is the diameter of the crank... almost seems mine is too big ti fit the opening, although it looks like it should fit. Goes in up to the crank nut and stops.

katy · 03-04-2022, 11:31 AM

Does your engine have the proper ratchet nut?

baba · 03-07-2022, 10:46 AM

Katy I am beginning to think there is something odd about that nut. I may have to resort to putting the radiator since that seems to be the only way to actually see the nut. Also wondering if the nut and the opening in the radiator have shifted out of alignment.

katy · 03-07-2022, 10:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by baba

Katy I am beginning to think there is something odd about that nut. I may have to resort to putting the radiator since that seems to be the only way to actually see the nut. Also wondering if the nut and the opening in the radiator have shifted out of alignment.

Have you tried a small mirror?

baba · 03-08-2022, 10:27 AM

Katy, on the advice of a local A guy with some experience I will pull the radiator and examine the front motor mount. He has convinced me that might be the alignment problem. I will get a good look at the nut that way and will replace the hoses at the same time and maybe send the radiator to be flushed as well. A real can of worms!!!

Ayers1 · 03-12-2022, 11:02 PM

I had a crank nut that was so badly worn that the crank wouldn't engage. I got a 1/2" drive socket and put on the nut, then ran a 1/2" extension through the front and turned the engine with a ratchet. It was close but it worked for me.

burner31 · 03-13-2022, 01:45 PM

Don't neglect to inspect your side motor mounts, bent/broken side mounts can really throw your engine position out of whack
Does your GAV rod rub, is it stiff or stick, this is a indicator of bad side mounts

Just a thought

baba · 03-14-2022, 01:18 PM

Well, I have removed the radiator and shell and discovered 1/2" thick steel shims under the corners of the radiator where there should only be thin rubber pads. Not sure if that is the cause of my misalignment or not. The nut is damaged enough that I cannot get the wrench on it to remove and replace it. I will examine carefully for a burr or something that is keeping me from getting the wrench to fit. Aaaargh.....

Bob C · 03-14-2022, 02:36 PM

How about some pictures? You may have a 1930-31 front cross member as
it would need to be shimmed to get the radiator to fit properly.

02-25-2022, 11:10 AM	#1
baba Member Join Date: Nov 2021 Location: Essex, Vermont Posts: 82	crank mount engage Trying to set the timing on my 29 coupe and the crank will not engage. I'm guessing something is out of alignment but can't figure out what or why. The business end of the crank passes into the opening but does not go in far enough to engage. Any ideas?

02-25-2022, 04:25 PM	#3
Bob C Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: So Cal Posts: 9,360	Re: crank mount engage Are you saying the hand crank is not long enough to engage the ratchet nut or the engine is to high or to low .

02-25-2022, 08:04 PM	#4
bobbader Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Huntington, NY Posts: 352	Re: crank mount engage Many years ago there were accessory front motor mount springs. The ones above the front crossmember were cone shaped and had rubber bumpers inside them .............. supposedly to absorb shock. Under the crossmember, where the motor mount stud cames through, rather than a third compression spring there was a thick rubber donut with a wide flat washer and castle nut .............. again to absorb shock. These springs and rubber pieces set the front of the engine just a bit too high for the crank wrench to line up with the crank ratchet. Take a flashlight to the front motor mount springs above the front crossmember. If they are anything but cylindrical in shape, this may likely be the problem.

02-26-2022, 06:07 AM	#5
brokenspoke Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Anderson, Texas Posts: 287	Re: crank mount engage Just put the car in gear and rock to TDC

02-26-2022, 07:28 AM	#6
Fhane Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Stuart Florida Posts: 159	Re: crank mount engage Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) I do not disagree with the above, but. It might not be a Model A crank, just a lookalike. I have seen hand cranks at swap meets that are a bit larger in diameter than the Model A. Compare to a known crank that works

02-26-2022, 07:58 AM	#7
nkaminar Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Western North Carolina Posts: 5,867	Re: crank mount engage This will not fix the crank engagement issue. Depending on how stiff the engine is you can sometimes rock the engine back and forth with the fan by temporally tightening the fan belt by pushing it in with your hand. A light spring on the plunger will insert it into the dimple for you while you are occupied turning the engine over. If you have good compression you can remove the spark plugs to make it easier to turn the engine with the fan. It turns easier when near TDC. __________________ A is for apple, green as the sky. Step on the gas, for tomorrow I die. Forget the brakes, they really don't work. The clutch always sticks, and starts with a jerk. My car grows red hair, and flies through the air. Driving's a blast, a blast from the past.

02-27-2022, 02:16 PM	#9
baba Member Join Date: Nov 2021 Location: Essex, Vermont Posts: 82	Re: crank mount engage I wish I had another crank to compare mine to. I will do some more examination to see if I can answer any of the above questions.

03-01-2022, 11:06 AM	#11
baba Member Join Date: Nov 2021 Location: Essex, Vermont Posts: 82	Re: crank mount engage Thanks Gary, I am pretty sure I have the wrong crank.

03-04-2022, 10:42 AM	#12
baba Member Join Date: Nov 2021 Location: Essex, Vermont Posts: 82	Re: crank mount engage Have given up on the crank and will remove the plugs so I can turn the engine over by hand to do the timing. I have tried very witch way to understand why the crank will not engage with no luck. Turns out my crank seems to be correct according to Garys diagram. Only thing I cant see is the diameter of the crank... almost seems mine is too big ti fit the opening, although it looks like it should fit. Goes in up to the crank nut and stops.

03-04-2022, 11:31 AM	#13
katy Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2015 Location: Red Deer, Alberta Posts: 5,715	Re: crank mount engage Does your engine have the proper ratchet nut? __________________ If you don't hear a rumor by 10 AM, start one!. Got my education out behind the barn!

03-07-2022, 10:46 AM	#14
baba Member Join Date: Nov 2021 Location: Essex, Vermont Posts: 82	Re: crank mount engage Katy I am beginning to think there is something odd about that nut. I may have to resort to putting the radiator since that seems to be the only way to actually see the nut. Also wondering if the nut and the opening in the radiator have shifted out of alignment.

03-08-2022, 10:27 AM	#16
baba Member Join Date: Nov 2021 Location: Essex, Vermont Posts: 82	Re: crank mount engage Katy, on the advice of a local A guy with some experience I will pull the radiator and examine the front motor mount. He has convinced me that might be the alignment problem. I will get a good look at the nut that way and will replace the hoses at the same time and maybe send the radiator to be flushed as well. A real can of worms!!!

03-12-2022, 11:02 PM	#17
Ayers1 Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2021 Location: Waynesboro Va. Posts: 507	Re: crank mount engage I had a crank nut that was so badly worn that the crank wouldn't engage. I got a 1/2" drive socket and put on the nut, then ran a 1/2" extension through the front and turned the engine with a ratchet. It was close but it worked for me.

03-13-2022, 01:45 PM	#18
burner31 Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2014 Location: Shawnee, Ok Posts: 3,479	Re: crank mount engage Don't neglect to inspect your side motor mounts, bent/broken side mounts can really throw your engine position out of whack Does your GAV rod rub, is it stiff or stick, this is a indicator of bad side mounts Just a thought __________________ Keith Shawnee OK '31 SW 160-B

03-14-2022, 01:18 PM	#19
baba Member Join Date: Nov 2021 Location: Essex, Vermont Posts: 82	Re: crank mount engage Well, I have removed the radiator and shell and discovered 1/2" thick steel shims under the corners of the radiator where there should only be thin rubber pads. Not sure if that is the cause of my misalignment or not. The nut is damaged enough that I cannot get the wrench on it to remove and replace it. I will examine carefully for a burr or something that is keeping me from getting the wrench to fit. Aaaargh.....

03-14-2022, 02:36 PM	#20
Bob C Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: So Cal Posts: 9,360	Re: crank mount engage How about some pictures? You may have a 1930-31 front cross member as it would need to be shimmed to get the radiator to fit properly.