oil with zinc

[TomC750]

I leaned something today. I bought a new lawnmower (old one was running great albeit almost 21 years old). The owner of the dealership warned me not to use automotive oil in it, as that oil does not contain zinc. He stated that he did not care if we bought oil from him or elseware, or if it was Briggs and Stratton or whatever. Also that Kawasaki oil has more zinc than the rest.

It would seem that it would be easier to buy that oil than other oil and an additive. I did not price oil, so I don't know how that works out. Maybe some of you are aware of this and I am just catching up!

[paul2748]

Did you get a booklet on the care of the mower? Then look up what they advise. Motor oils, like 10-30. 10-40 have zinc., enough for an automotive engine. This guy is ill-informed about ZDDP (zinc & phosphorus) being taken out of all automotive oils.


But follow the manufacture's instructions, not some one who does not know what he is talking about.

[Tim Ayers]

Castrol, Valvoline, and other oil manufactures produce oils that have high levels of zinc.

I agree with Paul2748 that the person who told you may be a little out of touch with current availability and zinc levels in most major brands of oil. Some have reduced it, but almost all oil continues some level of zinc still.

I have a Craftsman 4.5 hp mower that is 30 years old. Once a year I change the oil with any 10-30W I have a laying around. Still runs great and doesn't smoke or use any oil.

[Leadfoot4U]

As a retired municipal park's employee we always used straight 30W oil in all of the 4 cycle engines. Over the years we attended several "How To" seminars sponsored by mower manufactures....all said the same.

As far as Zinc as an additive several (if not all) ASE 30W oils have it, like Valvoline "Daily Protection 30W".

[TomC750]

Originally Posted by paul2748

Did you get a booklet on the care of the mower? Then look up what they advise. Motor oils, like 10-30. 10-40 have zinc., enough for an automotive engine. This guy is ill-informed about ZDDP (zinc & phosphorus) being taken out of all automotive oils.


But follow the manufacture's instructions, not some one who does not know what he is talking about.

The manual follows what I was told by the business owner.

[Merc Cruzer]

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Castrol 20 w/50

[TomC750]

I appreciate all of the responses! The first oil change is early, 5 hours. I will then use the manufacturers oil. The next interval is 100 hours at which time I will do as I have always done, used regular 10-30. I must have done something right- mower was almost 21 years old with less than 1000 hours. Very, very minor usage between changes, no smoke, ran like new. I traded partly because a new company is replacing Kohler and parts for older engines may not be available, not to mention the rear tires are an oddball size and no longer made. I have another mower that is 41 years old, runs like new 2 cyl water cooled. (Honda) I did put a timing belt on it once. It must have a lot of hours on it. Mowed 3+ acres for most of its life.

But back to my advice from the business owner, I am going on 85, been a mechanic all my life, but have been very impressed with the wide-ranging knowledge this individual has. He is smarter than most. I acknowledge, there is a lot of misinformation out there on all manner of subjects. I do not consider myself gullible.

[TomC750]

Originally Posted by Leadfoot4U

As a retired municipal park's employee we always used straight 30W oil in all of the 4 cycle engines. Over the years we attended several "How To" seminars sponsored by mower manufactures....all said the same.

As far as Zinc as an additive several (if not all) ASE 30W oils have it, like Valvoline "Daily Protection 30W".

I have used Valvoline for years, but cannot find straight 30 wt on the shelves! NAPA 30 wt is made by Valvoline, but I do not know what specs it has other than that.

[Tim Ayers]

I'm assuming the new mower has an OHV motor. If it's a Honda, you can use water in the crankcase and not kill it. I'm joking of course, but those Honda OHV engines have been abused and put away wet and still generally start first pull.

Most modern OHV small engines have similar durability except those Chinese-made Honda copies that Harbor Freight sells. Those are hit or miss in terms of reliability.

[deuce_roadster]

The main reasons for the removal or reductions of the heavy metals is that the older engines with flat tappet cams needed (mainly lead in the gas) for the valve seats and zinc for lifter bottoms. Now, valve seats are hardened and as far as I know all car engines have roller lifters which do not need the zinc. There are environmental reasons too.

[alchemy]

Neither my flathead Ford or Briggs and Stratton have roller lifters. So I use either Valvoline VR or that diesel oil whose name escapes me right now. They both have more zinc than the stuff made for modern cars.

[TomC750]

Originally Posted by Tim Ayers

I'm assuming the new mower has an OHV motor. If it's a Honda, you can use water in the crankcase and not kill it. I'm joking of course, but those Honda OHV engines have been abused and put away wet and still generally start first pull.

Most modern OHV small engines have similar durability except those Chinese-made Honda copies that Harbor Freight sells. Those are hit or miss in terms of reliability.

Yes Tim, I have a Honda motor on my log splitter, it can set for two years and star on a pull or two. No wonder most rental equipment is Honda powered.

[TomC750]

Originally Posted by deuce_roadster

The main reasons for the removal or reductions of the heavy metals is that the older engines with flat tappet cams needed (mainly lead in the gas) for the valve seats and zinc for lifter bottoms. Now, valve seats are hardened and as far as I know all car engines have roller lifters which do not need the zinc. There are environmental reasons too.

That and catalytic converters are adversely affected.

[TomC750]

Originally Posted by alchemy

Neither my flathead Ford or Briggs and Stratton have roller lifters. So I use either Valvoline VR or that diesel oil whose name escapes me right now. They both have more zinc than the stuff made for modern cars.

I am surprised that vehicle oil has any ZDDP at all. I have used Valvoline exclusively for years, I will explain in next post. I did use Shell Rotella T for a long time as well, it seems to have been the most popular, but I discovered it was not the best on the market.

[TomC750]

I read sometime in the past an extensive report on oil testing. I no longer have the report, it was very long, and done over a period of time by a retired oil engineer. I remember some of it. The oil was tested for ability to keep contaminates in suspension, sheer strength, how it held up in severe service, the additive content and more. The test did not name winners, only test results. So you had to study the whole report to come to a conclusion. My conclusion was that Valvoline was the best all around for gas engines and Chevron was the best for Diesels.

Some oils had a desirable additive, but only trace amounts, like ZDDP. It was far more complicated than I thought. Maybe my lawnmower guy is not so ill informed as some thought. Ever hear of a 10-30/30 oil? Seems to be a milestone to me.

Then we get to a different report, oil filters. Back when we had an Auto Parts store in the family we had two dissected oil filters on the counter. The Hastings which we sold was clearly superior to the Fram. Hastings has since been sold to Purolator? That brings me to a second report where an automotive engineer wrote a two part report on oil filters. He also dissected them. Again, like the oil, lots more differences than you would suspect. I buy my Motorcraft filters at Walmart, much cheaper than the Ford dealer.

[Tim Ayers]

Originally Posted by alchemy

Neither my flathead Ford or Briggs and Stratton have roller lifters. So I use either Valvoline VR or that diesel oil whose name escapes me right now. They both have more zinc than the stuff made for modern cars.

Castrol has introduced a "Classic" GTX with high zinc levels. I currently use Valvoline VR as well.

[Jeff/Illinois]

You have to change the oil??

Dang....

[FL&WVMIKE]

One oil to AVOID is non-detergent. This is straight base oil with ZERO additives at all. Zero zinc, zero detergents. Shouldn't be used in any internal combustion engines. It's mainly for air compressors.

Many companies sell 'classic' oils with the extra zinc for flat tappet cams. Can always find Valvoline VR1, which has plenty. I like Mobil 15w50 synthetic. It's the only readily available Mobil 1 with high zinc levels.

[Leadfoot4U]

Non-detergent oil does not have the additives that suspends the various particles that accumulate within a running engine. When the contaminants are suspended within the oil, it makes it easier for a filter to pick them up and clean the oil as it passes through. A stock '34 engine does not have an oil filter, so you do the engine a favor by changing the oil often as recommended, every 1000 miles. No point in using detergent oil.....its useless to a non-filtered engine. Non-detergent oil allows the particles to drop to the bottom of the oil pan, waiting on the next oil change. A good non-detergent oil will still have adequate additives like Zinc or Phosphorus to assist the wear on the engines. Like Valvoline's Non-detergent SAE 30W.

The same is true of multigrade oil. There's no need in using a lesser viscosity oil if you aren't using the engine during the colder temperatures. The start of this thread was regarding a mowing machine. It's not likely a person living in the North is mowing during January. The small engines in question do better with a straight 30W oil due to the tolerances within them are less than larger auto engines. If the small 4 cycle engine happens to have a filter, go ahead and use a detergent oil in it, but don't thin the oil unnecessarily on these engines.

[TomC750]

Regarding Jeff's picture, I remember my brother taking the pan off a Buick once
at his gas station when the oil would not drain. All that was left was "cake" no liquid to speak of.