Historical question: were wood-bodies cars doomed to an early demise?

[ericr]

do you guys think that most wood-bodied cars of the 1920s, which I guess would include about every vehicle made until Model "A" Fords, were generally short-lived unless garaged?

If these cars had metal panels simply nailed onto a wood skeleton, and since most of us have learned that water will find the tiniest crevice, surely cars of the era were not destined for a long life.

[Bleedblue4life]

Originally Posted by ericr

do you guys think that most wood-bodied cars of the 1920s, which I guess would include about every vehicle made until Model "A" Fords, were generally short-lived unless garaged?

If these cars had metal panels simply nailed onto a wood skeleton, and since most of us have learned that water will find the tiniest crevice, surely cars of the era were not destined for a long life.

Model A Fordor sedans were made the same way up till the 31 Slant windshield. These were cheap cars in the day, the wood was probably used from the crates that got shipped in from suppliers.

[Stretch Cab]

From what I understand the Chevrolet brand of cars had more wood than the Model A. At least that is the argument that I have heard as to why there are always more Model A cars at a car show than Chevies. So it would seem that wood was a problem from the beginning.

[mike657894]

I have a fordor and its all good hard wood. the standard fordor was one of the more expensive models. its pretty solid. my upper wood has some issues in the nail line. a few holes needed longer nails. but it has spent a lot of time in a garage. all complete all original wood.

[Tom Wesenberg]

The wood, the war effort, and the fact that many people, even into the 60's, considered a car over 6 years old disposable junk was why so few survived.

[H. L. Chauvin]

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

Hi ericr,

Just a humble opinion after hearing so many actual stories from my Dad who was born in 1902.

One has to try to think like responsible 1800's & 1900's people to appreciate what was going on back then.

The price of a good carriage back then was most expensive .... so very, very few conservative people had carriages back then .... and furthermore, a good expensive carriage was usually bought by conservative people who had enough sense to place this wood carriage in a carriage house with a raised wood floor.

The price of a good enclosed carriage with a windshield and sliding doors was almost as much as the price of an early good vintage car .... so very few people had cars back then; however, again, a good very early car was usually bought by conservative people who had enough sense to place this car in a carriage house or garage.

From 1940 until today, if someone in a later generation bought an old, vintage 1920's wood bodied car ........... anyone care to guess how many would have had enough "common sense" to park it in a garage rather than allow it to rot outdoors.

[DougVieyra]

The first car bodies made without wood as a structural frame-work were made by the Dodge Brothers, John and Horace. The Dodge Brothers were major stockholders in the new Ford Motor Company. The early Ford Motor Company could not have survived without the two men and their commitment to the Ford automobile. Henry Ford's refusal to incorporate a number of improvement to the car by the brothers lead to their split with Ford and the start of their own company. One of their ideas was to build a car that minimized the use of wood as a structural component.

Henry Ford used a lot of recycled and repurposed wood from shipping crates in the production of his cars. But the main structural frame work of the bodies was made from a specific wood (oak, etc.) solely dedicated to that purpose, and not from repurposed crates.

Like the wood wagons, carriages, coaches, etc. in the preceding 2,000 years, the new horseless carriage and its immediate improvement, the Motor Car, was meant to only last the lifetime of its owner - 20 years from purchase in most cases. So it made good common sense to follow the history of the previous 2,000 years. And it did do exactly what was intended and expected to do - last 20 years. The same is true today. Except that our wasteful society and modern marketing has made us feel like only 10 years is needed before we 'need a new car'. 5 years in some cases.

Ofcourse there are lots of exceptions. I still have the '69 VW air-cooled Beetle that I bought new in 1969. Of the six cars I presently own, none were made in this century - and only two (Model As) are 'antique' cars. The rest are conventional 'new' cars that have just gotten 'old'.

So having a wood-framed vehicle (the British kept wood alive into the '50's) was not then a problem, nor would it be today - if kept properly. But, alas, like constantly maintaining our mechanical brakes, it is seldom done to the degree needed for maximum longevity or efficiency. But for the 20 year life expectancy that wood-bodied cars were built for, they have done very well.

[Mike V. Florida]

I think Morgans are still built that way, metal on wood.

[BILL WILLIAMSON]

It's called "PLANNED OBSCELLESCENSE"
Bill Smartass

[updraught]

Originally Posted by Mike V. Florida

I think Morgans are still built that way, metal on wood.

Yes, and they will pass current crash tests no problem because the wood flexes. They like it because it doesn't squeak like metal (so they say).

They don't use wood from the continent as the trees contain too much shrapnel.

From experience, the wood decays around the bolts first. So when you drive the thing the body falls off.

[Bob Bidonde]

Three factors brought many GM cars to the scrap yards. First was the engines had fuel pumps. When the pump wore out, it was cheaper to buy a running vintage car than to buy and install a rebuilt / new fuel pump.

Second were the Fischer bodies which had a lot of structural wood, more so than other brands.

Third were the knee action shocks of the mid-to-late 1930s. When the knee action shocks wore out, Chevrolets lost their front suspension. Knee action shocks were expensive to buy and install.

Maybe some other brilliant ideas contributed to the early demise of GM cars in the 1930s like vacuum shifting and lots of pot-metal.

[ronn]

From what I understand the Chevrolet brand of cars had more wood than the Model A. At least that is the argument that I have heard as to why there are always more Model A cars at a car show than Chevies. So it would seem that wood was a problem from the beginning.



absolutely true!
I own a 31 chevy roadster and it is still not finished, because the parts are so much harder to come by. That is what turned me on to model A's.
Chevy outsold the Ford in 1931, but the Ford lasted and very few 31 chevies to be found, by comparison.

[Railcarmover]

Ford used more ball and roller bearings than chevrolet used in their cars in the model a era. Steel wheels are a big reason they lasted as well.

[WHN]

Leave wood where water can get to it and Mother Nature will have its way.

Have you seen a wooden wagon from the late 1800's that has been left outside?

We own a 29 Sport Coupe that has only spent one night outside and has not been in the rain for 78 years. When we replaced the top in the late 90's it still had some minor wood problems around the bottom of the rear window.

Wood and water don't mix well. Enjoy.

[JohnLaVoy]

My 29 Town Sedan came from the Pacific North West. It had sat, apparently outside, for about 10 years before I bought it. The car was very complete and had original upholstery. But sitting out the roof fabric was totally gone, the upper wood was not salvageable, the main wood runners were gone so it sat for several years before I undertook the wood replacement to bring it up to our tour car. The fordor sedans, victorias and A400s were built by coach builders still using the old style of fabrication making the body frame in wood and attaching the metal pieces. But if you can find one they make the best cars for touring! IMHO

[H. L. Chauvin]

Hi ericr,

FWIW, one (1) opinion from "hand on" experience ..... just in case anyone is contemplating buying a wood bodied Model A:

1. Prior to my buying my wood bodied 1930 Town Sedan, I called a few Model A guys from the Ahooga Forum, e.g., Mr. Marco, Mr. Ron Cloat, (aka Rainmaker Ron), etc.

2. They all advised that if this car sat out of doors for any period; and/or was stored in a humid area; and/or was driven on wet highways; expect wood rot most likely from:

A. A leaking roof; and/or,

B. Water entering all four (4) doors and/or the body at the side or rear glasses; and/or,

C. Water either splashing on the under carriage, and/or condensate water collecting on the undercarriage because of sitting on a wet and/or damp dirt floor.

3. I found the seller and third owner who had just moved next door to Fort Hood ,Texas on a Google Ad way down on about Google page 14 or 16 hidden in a Military Dodge Ad.

4. This gentleman was a car collector of all makes of cars, and had only one Model A for sale which he formally bought as an investment. He mentioned he had this car for 20 years in heated storage in New York; the previous second owner had it in heated storage in New York for 10 years; and the first owner had this car in Kansas, where this car never spent one night out of doors.

5. I crawled under this car with a pocket knife and tried stabbing wood with the point of my knife only to find all wood was solid. (Old time way to test rotten wood under fresh paint when buying wood boats).

6. Next, placed knee on bottom of latch side of door and pressed on latch side of top of door, (as instructed by Mr. Marco), and found all 4 doors solid.

7. After 10 years, and after bumper to bumper 100% total mechanical restoration, this car remains solid and still remains in a garage on a concrete floor. Like Mr. LaVoy states above in his reply #15, these wood bodied cars are great for touring and driving long and/or short distances.

8. Might add, if lots of Model A wood is initially found to be rotten, or even later found to be rotten after buying same, please research wood prices because it is very expensive and most time consuming to restore Model A hardwood bodies ..... that is ..... even if you are a very detailed, 100% master hardwood wood craftsman.

Just hope this helps anyone looking to buy Model A's with wood bodies.

[todd3131]

The big simple answer to the question is yes wood framed bodies lasted ten to fifteen years of regular use not pampered use but every day use. We restored a 31 Chevy cabriolet starting in 1963 it looked then like it was 80 years old. The wood was intact for patterns but the car. Had sat in the dry air of Western South Dakota. In contrast I have a unrestored survivor 34 buick with 44 k on it and it is all original and the wood is like new but the car was pampered it's entire life climate control ac and all. Most model a fords were beat to death and there was still something left to restore. Gm had a program of planned obsolescence but back in those labor was cheap and tech was expensive stamp dies even more so.

[H. L. Chauvin]

It is difficult to imagine anyone thinking that an untreated, unpainted wood body on a vintage car, encapsulated within a zero perm rated non-porous condensing metal skin, will last long for anytime, while parked outside of a carriage house or garage.

But 2017 facts are ......these guys are all around us and definitely mixed in among us

Years ago it used to be recognized as Common Sense people with brains who understood the natural forces of nature.

Appears Fast Food with intense weight gain and obesity, early retirement with "Couch Potatoism", and Global Warming are all modern scientific factors leading to our such severe modern genetic cerebral alterations.

In fact, it has gotten so terribly bad, Society had to invent our annually graded "Darwin Awards".

[MAG]

The body on the '30 Briggs TS in my Avitar was a casualty of poor care apparently its whole lifetime. All the wood was rotten and had to be replaced which was a three year project. Some of the pieces were intact enough to reproduce. Many had to be done from scratch. Doors close correctly and line up as new. I would not attempt to do it again.
But, as has been said, it is a great touring car. Roomy and comfortable. I enjoy driving it.

[heneste]

Originally Posted by Stretch Cab

From what I understand the Chevrolet brand of cars had more wood than the Model A. At least that is the argument that I have heard as to why there are always more Model A cars at a car show than Chevies. So it would seem that wood was a problem from the beginning.

I thought there were more Model As at car shows because there may have been less Chevrolets purchased back in the day (due to higher price)? Could also be linked to availability of spare parts for each marque (i.e. A lot easier to find Model A suppliers of NOS parts than it is for Chevrolet of the same era)