Should I buy this 59A?

[loganobrien121]

Hey guys,

First post on here! Hope 2017 has been good so far for all you!

So I'm trying to get the ball rolling on a traditional model A hotrod (finding a, unchanneled body is hard!) and I found a guy near me selling 2 flathead v8s. I'm interested in the 59A.

Only thing is - I know very, very little about these engines. I do know that cracking is an issue to be aware of (as would any 60+ year old engine be) and there's no way for me to verify if this one is cracked or not. All I know about it is that it doesn't turn by hand.

SO I thought I'd ask the experts - should I buy this and hope for the best, or wait for one that I can at least verify running condition? I know that I want to power my [eventual] car with a 59A, but I'd hate to piss away that money on an engine that wouldn't be viable unless I spend an utter crapton on crack repair.

Here's the link: http://losangeles.craigslist.org/sfv...950927603.html

Thanks so much in advance! Hope to get to know you all more in the future!

[deuce_roadster]

The safe thing to do is have the person agree to refund your money if the block has unrepairable cracks. Being stuck is not a good start. MOST used engines have some cracks between studs and water holes somewhere usually in around the middle cylinders where heat is concentrated.

[flatheadmurre]

Being stuck says nothing really...if it was a good engine being stored inside for years might be a great engine.
Best is if you can come to some kind of agreement to take the head and pan of before you buy it.
I had engines running good coming in to the shop being badly cracked at both panrail and between valves...with enough deposites in there they ran...but after you clean the block they will leak as a sieve.
And most cracks can be repaired just a question of money.

[34coupe]

I would pass, I'm sure there's some flathead guys in your area that would be willing to help find you a better deal.

[Bored&Stroked]

Buying old flathead engines and blocks is almost always a gamble in the price range he's asking. If it was a cleaned, hot-tanked, magged and sonic tested block --> figure $750 to 1000+ (and worth it). You can see that the heads have been off one of the blocks - probably not on the other.

What I do is first talk to the guy about the issue of spending $300 - only to find a block that is junk (you don't want to do that - not worth it). So - is he willing to guarantee that the blocks are good . . . or refund $XXX of the purchase price if they are not?

Also, you can do some preliminary checks yourself - if he will allow you to pull the heads and the oil pans (need a cherry picker and a stand - and the correct flathead engine stand mount - shouldn't use the bell housing). Here is what I've done quite a few times:

1) Pull the heads - check for obvious cracks between the valves and the bores
2) Bring a fully charged cordless drill with you - with a wire "cup" brush on it.
3) Wire brush around the valves and between the valves and the bores - down to bare cast iron as much as you can.
4) Bring a can of lacquer thinner or other solvent and then brush and clean these areas some more. Wipe everything to as clean and spotless as you can (have a good supply of rags with you)
5) Bring a magnifying glass and inspect these areas for cracks - I've found many this way.
6) Same deal once you pull the oil pan - inspect all surfaces and then wire brush the pan rail (bottom of the block) - from front to rear. Clean it and inspect for cracks. The most common areas seem to be around both sides of the center main cap webbing. People leave water in the blocks and they freeze crack (no freeze plugs).

If you do all of the above, you'll have a much better idea as to what you're working with and can reduce the chances of a junk block. It isn't a hot-tank and mag test, but a good start.

Also, you'll get an idea as to how rusted the insides are. The more rusted, the more work you'll have in getting the thing apart. If it looks like water was in the bores - check and see if you can see any cracks in the bores (have seen this before). I prefer to NOT buy ones that have had a bunch of water in them . . . and all rusted up . . . just a real pain to take apart. That is - unless it is a very special block - like an original 32. LOL

This has saved me from buying all sorts of boat anchors . . .

Good luck!

D

[zzlegend]

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That one has been listed for a while now. I live not far from there and look at craigslist a lot. I would also look for one that is a little more complete, like distributor, oil fill, crank pulley, and so on. It might help also if you add your location to your avatar and people might be able to send you leads. Just a thought.

[JSeery]

A running engine is no guarantee of a usable engine. The only way to tell is to have the block pressure tested and magnfluxed. You can find major damage with a visual inspection, but only testing can find some defects.

[rotorwrench]

Looks like a hodge-podge of stuff there. 8BA intakes on earlier engines. The head looks loose on one of them. He might have something usable and he might be trying to unload his boat anchors on unsuspecting enthusiasts. I'd either want a guarantee or lower price.

[41Joe]

I have seen this one on CL for a few months now. Might be worth to check out.
http://inlandempire.craigslist.org/pts/5881395123.html

[flatjack9]

I would never pay mare than $100 for an engine in unknown condition. Less than that for an incomplete engine.

[J Witt]

Unless you are a knowledgeable engine builder and have a good machine shop available, I'd suggest buying a ready to run engine from one of the reputable vendors that know what they are doing. It sounds more expensive up front, but in the end it's not. Try Flathead City or H and H for a quote on what you want. Expect about $5-6000.

Of course it all depends on what you like to do, what your time is worth and what you enjoy about the old car hobby. Best of luck with your project.

[Ol' Ron]

If your new to this,how many books on the subject have you read? What do you expect from the engine? what is the application? You can buy a good block for 6-700 bucks. Why the 59 when an 8BA is the same for most applications?

[loganobrien121]

Wow! You guys are super responsive. That's awesome.

Yeah, I think I will pass for now and wait for one either a little cheaper. All I really need is the block anyway; was planning on sourcing the rest of the components over time; new internals but period correct externals.

Ol' Ron - I was going to send it off for machining at H&H. Not doing any crazy application, I'd be happy if I got it to crank out 125-150hp. 200+ would be amazing but farfetched considering the $$$. Was leaning toward the 59A because I heard the fitment is better on model A's than the 8BA and it makes Plus, I love the look of the crab distributor.

I've read the 'how to rebuild and modify flathead v8' book which made me appreciate these motors; now, I'm tired of seeing Ford hotrods powered by SBCs. I know it'd be the smart choice to buy one/have one built by someone who knows what they're doing but this is one I want to assemble myself.

Well, the hunt continues. Thanks guys!

[rotorwrench]

8BA family engines can be set up to use the front mount distributor & pumps but the cam to drive the distributor has to be taken into account. The center port heads can be used but you have to plug some small coolant ports plus you have to use 59 series type heads to avoid valve clearance problems that arise with earlier pre-war heads. The Mercury pan & half bell works well to get a rear sump set up in the 8BA family or the pickup type but it is a bit different in the sump and the way the starter plate attaches with the half bell than the Merc. This is if you want to use a 37 or later light duty 3-speed transmission with top shift.

This will look like a 59 series but have more choices for different transmission applications.

[Fred A]

You hit a hot button with the engine shopping. In the last four years I've gone with a SBC and two flatheads in old Fords. There are good reasons for choosing against the flat Ford. For now my remaining projects will all be pre-'49 car and engine cause its what I have. Get with the Early Ford V8 clubs cause those old boys are largely hoarders and are probably sitting engines and parts they've had for decades. Short term, you'll need something to mockup your project. Play down the specifics of your project, not to scare them into thinking you're an indiscriminant hatchet artist, as far too many guys truly are. Your expectations of Flathead horsepower reveals your position in the learning curve. We're all hoping you're a quick study. Not rocket science! Good Luck: Fred A

[blucar]

If you are looking for a cheap re-buildable and/or running flathead engine, you are looking for the wrong thing, cheap and/or rebuildable are phrases that don't go together.
In this day and age all flathead motors are re-buildable, as to how much the rebuild will cost is another matter.
I have two "re-buildable" 59 AB's and one pre 59, 24 stud engine. I would not take less than $400. for either engine, the parts alone, water pumps, crank, heads, etc., are worth that much.
I would suggest that you contact H&H Flatheads Forever, in La Cresenta, CA (H&H flatheads-forever.com) Tell them what you are looking for in an engine, street/race, etc., They have a yard full of rebuildable engines which they can build to your needs.
You might want to consider an 8BA/8CM engine in lieu of a 59 AB. The water inlets in the front of the block and a modern side mount distributor can be very friendly in an early chassis.

[scicala]

The first picture in the 1st Craig'sList link above looks like a V8-60. Only 17 studs on heads.

Sal

[loganobrien121]

All great points, thanks! I think I will pass on that particular one.

Honestly, I'm really just looking for a block alone that isn't totally screwed/cost an insane amount at the machine shop for crack repair. I'll be replacing all the internals anyway so I'd rather spend all my money on that than just to get the block back to square one.

I know it's the smart decision to shop out the build - I can tell that the guys at H&H have forgotten more about these than I'll ever know, but I think I'll handle the assembly. I like building my own stuff; if I don't, idle hands kick in and all that. Plus then, when you nail it, you feel like a million bucks. I've been reading the Mike Bishop book and ordered the Roger Huntington book so I'm hoping those'll get me off to an okay start. Also have read the Reds Headers articles.

The search continues! Thanks guys.

[rotorwrench]

Ol' Ron's book and JWL's book are good reads. Nostalgia is the old tried & true ways from Ol' Ron and Flathead Facts from JWL has a wealth of info about all sorts of different things that many folks may never even think of. You can never have enough info on these old iron lumps. It usually saves you some grief & heart ache let alone money if you learn what is fact and what is fiction with the Ford flatheads.

The model A has about the shortest distance between radiator and firewall so more info is more better. The Bishop/Tardel book has a plan that was traditional but there are other ways to build an AV8 too. There is a lot of stuff on the HAMB as well.

[Mike in AZ]

Welcome to the 'Barn.....as you know about H&H, then you know the cost of a turnkey flathead....good luck and hope you find a good block/engine....Mike