Bushings or bearings 2 tooth gemmer

[Licensed to kill]

I'm rebuilding the steering box for my '31 ad I see that, for not a lot of money, I can upgrade the sector shaft bushings to needle bearings. The bushings in mine are like new and don't require changing but, it's claimed that the needle bearings make the steering smoother and easier. has anyone noticed any improvement in the feel by changing over to the bearings?.

[forever4]

Use bushings and a seal, not bearings.
Bearings are not better in any way.

I have machined a couple of housings on A and B for needle bearings, and would never recommend it again.
Bushings and a seal is a much better solution.

[Synchro909]

On this occasion, Forever and I agree. I am told that the sector shaft is not hard enough for needle rollers to be a good thing. By far most of the time, the steering is straight ahead. When driving straight ahead, we are actually constantly adjusting the wheel slightly. This small amount is not enough for the needled to move one whole turn on the shaft so they roll back and forth over the same spot time and time again, thus wearing grooves in the shaft which results in "notchey" steering. Plain bushes are way more durable.

[Mitch//pa]

I only use the needle bearing setup.. never saw any of the issues people report about them being bad. Scoring, shafts not hardened etc.... i just took one apart that has about 50K on it and the sector where the needles ride are still good.. IMO its a good fix and like the seal also

Modern boxes use needle bearing sectors also

[Ron in Quincy]

If you want to really make your 2 tooth steering easy, change the pitman arm to a shorter style.

I also agree that bushings and seal are better than going to the expense of needle bearings. Just my opinion!!!!

Ron

[ursus]

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I think some of the wear problems reported with the needle bearing conversions may be due to the fact that, for a while, a number of the vendors were selling the converted housing with needle bearings and seal along with the sector as a unit. The sectors that I looked at were all stamped with "Industria Argentina" and were probably of lesser hardness than the needle bearings.

[forever4]

Many/most of the repro sectors I have checked are undersize diameter to original Ford, and allow the needles to crab ever so slightly and not roll, just scrub. This is what I have seen and found in a number of instances.

Also the needle bearings are very sensitive to the housing diameter being machined exactly correct, as too much of a press fit also causes the needles to crab and not roll freely.
YMMV

[Roger V]

I used the needle bearings once but did not notice any advantage. Years ago I knew a club member who was a Ford service department manager back in the early V8 era. He claimed that Ford tried needle bearings but switched back to bushings. My understanding is needle bearings are used usually where rotation is continuous. Since steering sectors do not continuously rotate, bushings are better plus can be fitted relatively tightly. The revised sector housings for needle bearings have too much slop so the steering is not nice and tight like the original with bushings.

[Dick Steinkamp]

Originally Posted by Roger V

The revised sector housings for needle bearings have too much slop so the steering is not nice and tight like the original with bushings.

Roger,
What are the clearances for both the current needle bearing setup with a new, quality sector, and the same for new bushings?

[Mitch//pa]

I dont have any slop in the sector of the needle boxes I've built or have seen any evidence of the sectors being sold now are Inferior. Lots of opinions with no evidence, so ill keep gong the route that works for me, like my viton tip float valve. And yes i go 60 mph all day

[Kevin in NJ]

You should probably read my notes on doing the sector follow the link:

2 Tooth


My brother has a different thought on the sectors and needle bearings. He wonders if some of the repro sectors were made at plants where they designed them to run on needle bearings. As some people have had success with them lasting a long time.

Of course you have the other possible problems mentioned above.

I did chat with a guy who did steering rebuilds. Originally all he did was needle bearing conversions. He gave up and switched back to bushings.

[forever4]

NOS Two tooth sector matches Ford drawing with Mitutoyo digital.



Same dimensions using Starrett V anvil mike.



NOS Ford Script bronze bushing on top.
Clevite bushing on bottom.
Same size, not different.
Also note how the oil groove terminates before the end on one side.
That is the outboard end of the bushing to place next to seal.

[Licensed to kill]

Thanks for all the input. very much appreciated.

[Will Ziegler in LI NY]

I'll add my 2 cents. Machine the housing for a seal and use bushings. Has worked well for me.