Cylinder head washers

[bunnyc]

'29 Tudor with a '30 engine. I decided to replace the '30 water outlet neck with the correct '29 (shorter) neck to make the water hose "look better".

The washers under the nut are thin, and in the removal process were deformed in my efforts.

My question: Are these special washers or can I use a washer from my local hardware store as a replacement?

I'll be using the copper gasket, will true the new outlet neck with abrasive paper on plate glass and torque the nut in increments.

Thanks.

[Tom Wesenberg]

By deformed, do you mean the ends caught and spread the lock washer to a bit larger diameter?
I often have original lock washers break when removing them or reinstalling them.
Common lock washers should work fine.

[quickchange]

Not normal to have the washers unless running out of thread or alloy head, Tip so you don,t break the ears on water outlet when tightening , place a wooden match on top of the gasket OUTSIDE each stud , tighten in normal way,

[tbirdtbird]

...

[Mitch//pa]

I use the copper gasket and never broke a neck that way. Never used any kind of washers under the nuts

[bunnyc]

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Originally Posted by Tom Wesenberg

By deformed, do you mean the ends caught and spread the lock washer to a bit larger diameter?
I often have original lock washers break when removing them or reinstalling them.
Common lock washers should work fine.

Here's a photo of the washers that were under the nut. They are not lock washers. They are thin. The ID is the same size as the stud. I had to pry them up, causing the deformation, then unscrew them from the stud.

[Bruce Adams]

While you can certainly do what you feel is right, there were not washers under the cylinder head nuts. The catalogs do not include washers with their head nuts either.

[hardtimes]

Originally Posted by bunnyc

Here's a photo of the washers that were under the nut. They are not lock washers. They are thin. The ID is the same size as the stud. I had to pry them up, causing the deformation, then unscrew them from the stud.

Hey bunnyc,
Cylinder head washers are commonly used under and necessary, when using aluminum head. Are you using an alum head ? If not, it's not necessary to use any washers on an iron head. However, I do use HARDENED washers on alum and iron heads..personal preference, as I'm not into 'points' thing. And, I've found that hard washers indeed do prevent hard nuts from digging into both iron/alum heads. Your call here, eh .
Now when tightening down the water neck two nuts, use alternate torque method till desired tightness is achieved. The very simple way to prevent breakage, is to use a small amount of sealant on the clean/bare mating surfaces. Even with a small amount, you will see a little squeeze out when both surfaces are flat. I've used this method forever and have never broken an inlet and/or outlet fixture. Good luck

[Tom Wesenberg]

Originally Posted by bunnyc

Here's a photo of the washers that were under the nut. They are not lock washers. They are thin. The ID is the same size as the stud. I had to pry them up, causing the deformation, then unscrew them from the stud.

When you mentioned washers and water outlet, I was thinking you meant the water inlet, where two lock washers are used. As mentioned, the cast iron head shouldn't have any washers, but aluminum heads would use a flat washer so the nuts don't gall the aluminum.

[J Franklin]

Regarding matches under the outlet ears, I heard it was to be paper matches.

[Quigley1930]

X2
Sewall

[bunnyc]

Thanks for all the replies. I'll go with no washer. I don't have an aluminum cylinder head.

[DougVieyra]

With 50 years of doing this, I can assure that one does NOT use wooden matches under the outer goose-neck feet. Thin PAPER matches are what was and is used.

[Big hammer]

With the mating surfaces flat, why is there concern with cracking the outlets? It's very easy to make it flat! With the couple of A's and also with thermostat housings on V-8's, I was taught to make the mating surfaces flat by using abrasive paper on a flat surface, move the outlet in a figure 8 pattern! Would this procedure be considered a farmer fix? Or basic mechanics or something else.

[tbirdtbird]

the casting is not very beefy in this area at all...that is the problem

[Kurt in NJ]

Originally Posted by Big hammer

With the mating surfaces flat, why is there concern with cracking the outlets? It's very easy to make it flat! With the couple of A's and also with thermostat housings on V-8's, I was taught to make the mating surfaces flat by using abrasive paper on a flat surface, move the outlet in a figure 8 pattern! Would this procedure be considered a farmer fix? Or basic mechanics or something else.

i too thought that I should make it flat---then I broke the ear off, next one I left "bent" --no problems with using the gasket, the bent ears take the place of the matches---the one I broke got brazed, no gasket, just sealer, still good 30 years later

[BILL WILLIAMSON]

Saw a cartoon, 2 running stick figures made from welding wire. Ones' body was a NUT, the other was a SCREW.
The caption was, "NO, NOT WITHOUT A WASHER"!!!
Bill Laffing

[glenn in camino]

I use .060 hardened flat washers under the nuts on my aluminum, 7-1 Thomas head on my modified B engine. If not hardened, they will dish. and you will loose torque.