Repainting '30 Ford fenders

[Jeff/Illinois]

Our 1930 Dlx. Roadster's fenders look shabby,,,, they are cracking out from a 1979 paint job that must have been lacquered. Body looks pretty good still but the fenders need redone. But they have that cracked egg shell look that I see on cars that have been lacquered. I've taken a magnet all around them and they don't seem to have any bondo or the like, pretty solid Henry Ford steel.

Question--- (and I'm no paint and body guy I'll hire it out) I have a good Vietnam Vet friend that runs a body shop, has done a lot of work for us in the past. Does good work and doesn't charge an arm and a leg. He's 20 miles away so can't run the car down to him until spring and the Ill. DOT salt layering system is good and washed away. He hasn't a lot of experience with Model A's or cars of that vintage. But he will take on odd ball jobs I've hit him up with many.

So, could I get a decent paint job with the fenders and splash aprons still attached or do they have to come off? Car is a driver so underside (which was coated with rubbery undercoat before I got the car) isn't an issue. I thought dealing with the fender welting may be more than he'd like to fool with? Thanks guys.

[Mitch//pa]

Jeff
My personal opinion is to remove the fenders and aprons, it's not that hard and you'll get a cleaner overall job with no overspray..
Could you remove them yourself then send the parts out for work... Reinstalling with the welting is pretty easy...
Are u doing all 4?

[duke36]

Before going for a re-paint, you may want to sand a very small area of the ex. finish where there is cracking and see if any cracks disappear. Use 1000 grit wet/dry paper. If any finish depth remains with cracks gone, it may be possible to re-polish. If not, you may want to consider a re-shoot using single stage urethane which has the color all the way through and can somewhat emulate the original black enamel finish. My experience is that road chips can be easier to touch up, but check with others re: their preferences.

[Jeff/Illinois]

You're probably right Mitch, that would be the best way to handle it. I could take them down to Danny and he could just do them in his shop. Never pulled these before I need to learn anyway! Maybe then I could peek in on the frame and see what kind of number I have, as the motor doesn't match the title I'm hoping it is titled to the frame number. But, sshhhh, don't want the Ill. DMV knowing this! Car has had a clean title since 1970 from Illinois and I don't know who did what since then! Car came out of Iowa with a clear title in the late 60's from what I have learned---------

[Marvin/TN]

In my opinion sanding a small place isn't a good idea. Probably the reason they cracked in the first place is because the film thickness is too thick and they are most likely cracked all the way down to the metal. I would also remove them to do the paint work. Much, Much easier to get a good paint job that way. 40 plus years of doing body repair and paint work so this comes from past experience.

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

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Just to refresh yor memory, ....removing a '30 model front fender requires the body be lifted!

[Capt Quahog]

Actually think that at least the front fenders and firewall on my late 31' tudor might be original paint. Took some polishing compound and the fenders came up gleaming black. This looks to be old high quality lacquer painted and is in very good condition. The car body on the other hand is a mystery being a 1970s era amateurish paint job having flaking-off thick enamel with un-primed bare metal underneath. Honest to Gawd! . . . the troglodytes who painted this body decades ago sprayed over bare metal with no primer. As soon as the warm weather arrives, this tudor body gets a healthy walnut shell media blast, decent surface finish work and a respectable "somewhat" semi-gloss BLACK paint job. The fenders are to be left as is complete with scuffs, scratches and bumps. The impression is to be a Model A Ford automobile of the late 1930s as it probably looked after rolling through years of the Great Depression.

[JohnLaVoy]

Brent you are correct, the 30 fenders are under the body, the apron is attached to the running board too. The body needs to be lifted to get those off.

[Big hammer]

You can loosen all the body bolts, lift one side slightly,remove fenders and apron on that side, lower back down on the frame, then the other side. You will need to remove steering column mount, etc. I did this with a 31 Tudor, saved me from lifting body completely off the frame. I would not worry about numbers( nice to know ), you have a good title!!

[Mitch//pa]

Originally Posted by Big hammer

You can loosen all the body bolts, lift one side slightly,remove fenders and apron on that side, lower back down on the frame, then the other side. You will need to remove steering column mount, etc. I did this with a 31 Tudor, saved me from lifting body completely off the frame. I would not worry about numbers( nice to know ), you have a good title!!

Agree it doesn't take much lift to access the few bolts under the body with a couple wrenches.

[pgerhardt]

I agree with the others. Remove the fenders. My 29 tudor was quickly resprayed with the fenders on for resale. The tape masking line between the green body and black rear fenders fell right on the fender welt. Yuk!!
The rear of the car has now been correctly done. I am working on the front fenders now. They are both at New England Dry Stripping removing the old paint and bondo for a fresh start at refinishing. If you do remove the fenders then you could also have them stripped before handing them over to the body shop.

[Jeff/Illinois]

Thanks for the replies it looks like 'fenders off' is the only right way to do this job! Thanks again.

Or, another thought, can lacquered fenders be wet sanded back to a good finish, or once they crack out the party's over? Is it too hard of a surface to sand back?

[Capt Quahog]

Haven't dealt with old time automobile lacquer paint in a recent decades but to recollection, that type coating was excellent for patch up body work jobs. Remember smashing up the front fender on a 1934 Ford that had original lacquer paint. The old body man friend hammered out the fender and employed lead as filler. We did the repaint at home and were able to blend in the black finish perfectly. At least with the lacquer paint in days of yore, it was spray applied in layers with ultra fine wet sanding in between. Though timing consuming, lacquer automobile paint finishing was very forgiving and hard to screw up. I do not know if modern type lacquer paint works out the same way.

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

Originally Posted by Capt Quahog

Haven't dealt with old time automobile lacquer paint in a recent decades but to recollection, that type coating was excellent for patch up body work jobs. Remember smashing up the front fender on a 1934 Ford that had original lacquer paint. The old body man friend hammered out the fender and employed lead as filler. We did the repaint at home and were able to blend in the black finish perfectly. At least with the lacquer paint in days of yore, it was spray applied in layers with ultra fine wet sanding in between. Though timing consuming, lacquer automobile paint finishing was very forgiving and hard to screw up. I do not know if modern type lacquer paint works out the same way.

Actually, most '34 fenders I knew about came from the factory with enamel paint on the fenders. Spraying lacquer over alkyd enamel has usually been frowned upon. Modern synthetic lacquers spray much like older nitrocellulose lacquer, and have been found to be quite durable when properly applied however they are costly to spray ( in materials & labor ) when compared to modern 2k urethanes.

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

Originally Posted by Jeff/Illinois

Thanks for the replies it looks like 'fenders off' is the only right way to do this job! Thanks again.

Or, another thought, can lacquered fenders be wet sanded back to a good finish, or once they crack out the party's over? Is it too hard of a surface to sand back?

Not too hard to sand back but very time consuming and you have no idea which substrate failed causing the cracking. If it is cracked to the metal and removal is not an option, using a razor blade to strip the paint is a good option. FWIW, I think the labor would probably be less to lift the body and remove the fenders but sometimes that is not an option.

[Marshall V. Daut]

Jeff -
Take your putty scraper and plan on 4-5 hours scraping each fender. The old cracked lacquer MUST be removed right down to the metal. I guarantee you that the cracking extends into the primer, which actually cracks first, taking the color coat with it. Don't mess with paint stripper because of the mess and expense. With the right scraper, I can remove paint faster and cleaner than using stripper.
I did a local car last year with old lacquer that had become alligator skin. It took several hours of scraping with a FLEXIBLE putty scraper to get all the paint off each fender and splash apron, followed by disc sanding down to bare metal. But all that horrible cracking was gone forever. The fenders turned out great! See "Before", "During" and "After" attached photos.
No sealer is going take care of that "turkey tracking" in the old lacquer. A color coat is only as good as what it goes over. You will never be happy with the results unless you strip EVERYTHING off the metal.
Marshall

[Marshall V. Daut]

By the way, as you can see from the photos, this was a 1930 Model A like yours. It wasn't really all that big of a deal to raise the body slightly in order to remove the front fenders. Be sure to remove the rear fenders before tilting the body! You only need to raise the body 1/2" to 1" to slide the front fenders out. Of course, the front fender brackets and steering column support clamp also need to be removed. Just study what has to come off or be loosened before starting and all the pieces will fall into place.
You will never be able to do a complete strip job with the fenders still mounted, as bad as lacquer cracks. It's brutal all the way down to the metal.
Marshall

[Jeff/Illinois]

Thanks Marshall. Ours aren't cracked out quite that badly but they are heading in that direction!! The ones you show were nasty in the before pictures

[Marshall V. Daut]

Jeff -
Yup - They don't heal themselves when they get like that. They only keep "going south". The cracking was so severe on this car that you could literally cut your finger rubbing it across the brittle lacquer. OUCH!!!
Marshall

[Larry Jenkins]

Marshall..

Being an old lacquer man, like you know, how about telling us what you used from primer to top coat.

Those fenders look wonderful! Gonna rub them out with Finesse?

Larry