late columbia in a 34-the results

[cas3]

i decided to shorten the housing. it looked like a fun/challenging project so i did it my self. now that its done, the 225 bucks the pros want do do it is a very good deal!! they certainly move faster than me or they are machining for 10 bucks an hour. so first, to establish a center i welded a plug in the bearing race on the columbia end, then put the race in the lathe and drilled a center hole. put the race back in the case, bolt it to the axle housing and chuck it in the lathe using the wheel bearing race to grab, and my new welded center in the tail stock. so, even though i am centered on fords bearing centers, should be straight right? no, about an 1/8 out in the middle of the tube. my guess is none are straight, because the middle doesnt matter, only the ends. so next i made a light cut on the weld where the axle housing and the columbia clutch housing come together. this is so now, i have a center to work off of after they are cut apart. next i used a square on the bed and lined up the two bolt holes near the torque tube. next i ran the carriage across my center cut to scribe a line to locate where the alignment of the new axle will meet the columbia. now all set up, just cut it off. well not that easy. there is a sleeve in the columbia for strength or alignment or both, sticks out about 1 3/4 " towards the outside. when my cutoff tool got in there, it wanted to chatter bad, but go slow and get it off. next i made a sleeve like the other, but smaller for the 34 tube, and welded that in (note the two welds inside in the photo). then chuck it up using the light cut i made on the weld for center, and turn it to a taper to fit the 34 tube. when i had the whole 34 housing chucked up to cut it off it was really out of whack!! bent? like that from new? i dont know, but it will be true on each end, all that matters. i got lucky and made the taper fit just snug enough i had to force the new axle tube on. lined up my scribe marks for square, check center for true, and weld ! easy peasy. lots of hours in this, next time hire the big boys !

[hotcoupe]

you made a nice looking job of it! looks like all you need now is to make the spacer.
tom

[cas3]

i'm goin without the spacer. couple thoughts here, first the 34 i took apart, the center section where the rear pinion bearing mounts was cracked. the reason ford changed centers is the early narrow ones are weak. the wide center gives you bigger/deeper pinion bearings, plus in later years (when?) they made the web that gives the pinion area strength extend about half way around the casting, not just a small triangle web as in from 32 on to 36 (?). so i am using the 46 center that came with my columbia, and a late 411 gear set i found in my stash i had forgotten about (felt like i won the lottery that day!!), and like in rumbleseats plan i will next cut down my wide 46 axles to fit the now wider rearend. i am puzzled that he states 3/8" wider on each axle, when the center banjos are only 1/4" different. i'll cross that bridge when its going together. why not have a hybred of the strongest parts. next reason is, one more gasket, so one more place to leak. i'm happy so far, but i dont have that pretty tig weld mr stooksbury did !

[cas3]

here is the diff on the diffs for those folks who've never been inside. on the left is my 34, with the rear bearing cage cracked. looks like they ran it for a while just fine, perhaps not the reason the car was parked many decades ago. in the center is a 35 with the small web for pinion support, but 1/4 " wider to use the bigger bearings in the bells, and bigger deeper bearings on the pinion shaft. on the right is the 46 with the cast web support for the pinion bearings reaching half way around the housing top and bottom. the other part of the puzzle not mentioned is the late center, with deeper bearings is about 1/2 " longer in the snout where the torque tube mounts. so, i will also have to shorten both drive shaft and tube. i 'll use the 46 tube, and make a new shaft so i dont have to wreck the originals. hope this helps those thinking of such crazy ideas like i get!

[hotcoupe]

looks like you`re doing a great job, using the later parts is a good idea that i never considered. how are you going to address the issue with the axle tube/banjo housing mounting bolts, they are clocked differently `33 &`34 vs. `42 - `48?
tom

[Mart]

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Thanks for laying out the 3 casings, the wider web is a new one to me, but I've always left axles alone if running ok, so have never looked inside. I had to reread what you said about the extra snout length and get it straight that by later you mean both 35 and 48 type. The difference between them and the earlier is obvious in the photo, and the fact that the two later ones are the same snout length is also apparent.

The clocking is also visible, the later two are symmetrical about the pinion (to my eye at least) and the other is offset.

Thanks for the interesting post.

Mart.

[blucar]

I installed a '42-48 Columbia onto my '36 banjo with no difficulty, the bolt holes matched perfectly...

[cas3]

yes the bells are clocked different. so i will have to cut the driver side too. a 35 or 36 bell would be clocked rite, and use the same size axle tube. sadly, i dont have one ! also, 35 or 6 would have the bigger bearing at the carrier?. 46 tube is too big. if i have to use the 34, it looks like a .040 shim under the carrier bearing will allow the use of the later gear set. i'll post the finish product when i get there, thanks for the interest, skip

[Mart]

I think (99% sure) the 35/36 housings do not have the bigger carrier bearings. The taper of the tubes is also similar to 33/34, the 37-48 casings are bigger diameter.

Mart.

[rotorwrench]

1937 was the first year that they beefed the banjo support up. A lot of the folks that use the converted 42 through 48 Columbia housing & carrier modify them for the heavier 37 through 41 rear axle set up but the 35 & 36 axles will also work if you can find one. It saves having to play with rear spring mountings and such

[cas3]

todays update: i got my left side housing re-clocked and put back together. while it was laying in two pieces on the lathe bed, i was very unhappy trying figure out what to do about the 080 thou of metal thats now missing from my cut. weld it up and machine?, make a sleeve inside? finally the brain kicked in... i have the right side bell, cut off for the columbia, thought i'd make a lamp base or sumthin out of it (yeah, right, in my next life maybe), but i just cut it longer to make up what was missing, no more lamp project but thats just fine. so now i have the extra bell, cut off at at the base of the tube to start figuring out the left side bearing situation. so now we got a late (wide-3 3/4") center section, and early 32-34 bell. i put it together (no axles) first with early bearing and race, and as i ruff guessed early on, its about 080 short. the depth of the race seat in both early and late bells is the same so i figured just the later bearing and race would put it all right. it would, i think, except the race for the 46 is 020 bigger. that would have been easy to machine when i had just a bare , cut off bell, but now its all welded together. two beers of staring at it, and i still have no idea how to chuck it up in the lathe. cant hold a tapered tube with the steady rest, and the tubes are really not true, and a weld seam. one friend i have says when you build stuff its a 3 part deal- the mock up, the screw up, and the build up. so, it looks like two options, hard shim under the early carrier bearing, about 080, and there is room on the ring gear, or cut the race on the 34 housing 020 to fit the big, late , bearing. i have a friend who plays with big steam tractors, and he has a lathe with about a 20' bed, and a 3' chuck. i cant remember how big the center hole .... but maybe big enough to fit the spring hanger thru and chuck off the outer edge of the bell. another option would be spend some time with some bearing people and perhaps there is a bearing that size available. next is i am going to have new wheel bearing races put on the ends, and what i understand is they grind down for the new race, 1/8" thick, and center off the inside of the end of the housing at the wheel end. an 1/8 cut will straighten out any crookedness from welding. speaking of welding, when i had the parts in the lathe all lined up ready for weld, i put the dial indicator on the compound, and did my first tack on the opposite side. just a short burst and then i watched the dial, sure enough it moved out 5 tho. i then put a block of steel in between the compound and the housing and screwed it back to zero before the next tack. (lathe abuse) next report when i figure out the bearing issue! skip

[glennpm]

You're doing a great job on this, including pictures and excellent description!

[cas3]

i spoke with the tech at timkin today, and no race is made 020 smaller for the left carrier . however, i called a local crankshaft grinder place too, and they said no problem to chuck the race up on they're machine and grind off 020. that sounds like the easiest way to go, then the whole center section is later, bigger bearings. now i need some bearings, skip

[quickchange34]

Finally a a thread with great technical interest. You sir are doing a nice job.

[John R]

Originally Posted by quickchange34

finally a a thread with great technical interest. You sir are doing a nice job.

x2!