The Ford Barn

Maclab58 · 10-16-2015, 05:34 PM

Toolin down the street in my slant window cabriolet today an deveed a rhythmic clunking noise in first gear. Not good. It has always had a whine in second gear and third was always good. I limped it home and drained the oil out of it and heard an ominous clunk in the oil drain pan. It was a complete tooth off of a gear. I can't tell which gear it is off of yet. Plan to drop the trans tomorrow and do the autopsy. What would y'all do? Replace it all with new gears, shafts and bearings or just replace the offending gear. This is my touring vehicle. If someone has a Mitchell I sure would entertain the swap.
Thanks!

Mitch//pa · 10-16-2015, 05:39 PM

as a starting point use Tom Endys list of basic essential parts on any rebuild ( bearings, shafts etc.... once you tear it down you can figure out what gears are needed...

Maclab58 · 10-16-2015, 05:57 PM

I use Tom's List three years ago when I rebuilt the transmission on my early 28 sport coupe. I replaced everything but transmission case last time. And it is a great running transmission now. I wonder though did I do too much? Should I have just replace the gears that were actually bad.

1955cj5 · 10-16-2015, 06:01 PM

I was curious so I looked up Tom Endy's articles...here is a link..

http://www.santaanitaas.org/technica...tech-articles/

Mitch//pa · 10-16-2015, 06:04 PM

here is the basic essential list
its under Toms transmission prudence article

Mitch//pa · 10-16-2015, 06:13 PM

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Maclab58

I use Tom's List three years ago when I rebuilt the transmission on my early 28 sport coupe. I replaced everything but transmission case last time. And it is a great running transmission now. I wonder though did I do too much? Should I have just replace the gears that were actually bad.

i mix and match gears with no adverse effects of noise.. on Lucy i just replaced the input gear

CarlG · 10-16-2015, 08:28 PM

My second Model A (in 1958 or so) had a missing tooth on one of the gears. I just replaced that one gear and it worked like a charm. Got the new gear at NAPA.

RonC · 10-17-2015, 07:01 AM

Why did the tooth break? You may have pending failure with a mating tooth from another gear. It's best to keep used gear sets together for noise. Also if you have any pitting on the tooth wearing surfaces replace that gear. That pitting is breakdown of the gear surface and creates noise. Any teeth that are rounded or abused looking toss. My guess is your gears are beat from improper shifting. Always replace all shafts and bearings. If you can afford it buy all new gears made by Mark Auto. They are the best gears. Ask your vendor before buying. If you do your top stay away from repro shifter shafts they are hit or miss junk. They cause hang ups while shifting. There are people who can redo your original

mrtexas · 10-17-2015, 07:46 AM

I'll sell you a complete set of good used gears and shafts for $50+$15 postage. I got many sets of gears from a Model A junkerman for cheap! Have 5 or 6 sets still. Someone else I sold a set to for $50 said they were better than he expected. Get your restored shifter shaft from Berts. They will sell you one for less than I can get one replated!

The 3 sets of gears and shaft I had are sold out. Still have some cluster gears.

Gee got more response out of this post than a want ad. The last time I posted about the gears only sold one set!

Maclab58 · 10-17-2015, 09:48 AM

I am headed to the shop now to start pulling the trans out. Will update once te autopsy is complete.

BILL WILLIAMSON · 10-17-2015, 01:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrtexas

I'll sell you a complete set of good used gears and shafts for $50+$15 postage. I got many sets of gears from a Model A junkerman for cheap! Have 5 or 6 sets still. Someone else I sold a set to for $50 said they were better than he expected. Get your restored shifter shaft from Berts. They will sell you one for less than I can get one replated!

How KIND of you to do that, Mr. T,
Some noise from mismatched gears is NO big DEAL, as they were always somewhat NOISY.
I am always pleased at the KINDNESS & HELP, offered on the BARN
Bill W.

700rpm · 10-17-2015, 05:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrtexas

I'll sell you a complete set of good used gears and shafts for $50+$15 postage. I got many sets of gears from a Model A junkerman for cheap! Have 5 or 6 sets still. Someone else I sold a set to for $50 said they were better than he expected. Get your restored shifter shaft from Berts. They will sell you one for less than I can get one replated!

PM sent.

Maclab58 · 10-17-2015, 09:23 PM

Well guys here is the follow up spent a few hours pulling the reared and transmission. Got the tranny apart and found original gears, date stamped 3/31. They were all worn but the klinker was the cluster gear. It was gaulded with very heavy wear and pitting. Plan at this point is new gears, shafts and bearings. This is my tour car so I need to be able to depend on it.

mrtexas · 10-18-2015, 01:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maclab58

Well guys here is the follow up spent a few hours pulling the reared and transmission. Got the tranny apart and found original gears, date stamped 3/31. They were all worn but the klinker was the cluster gear. It was gaulded with very heavy wear and pitting. Plan at this point is new gears, shafts and bearings. This is my tour car so I need to be able to depend on it.

I can sell you a good used cluster gear cheap. $25 including shipping.

Maclab58 · 10-18-2015, 10:16 PM

Thank you for the offer. At this point I yhink I'm goin to bite the bullet and buy all new guts for this thing. It is my tour car and I don't want any future problems. At nearly 60 yrs old pulling this thing apart has been no picnic. Bell housing, case and shift tower are cleaned and painted. Will await parts and put it back together. Will send pics as I go.

CarlG · 10-19-2015, 11:19 AM

If it were mine, and I was going to replace all the guts, I'd send the empty case to Mitchell and have them put their all new synchro gears in.

ccb360 · 10-20-2015, 07:05 AM

The synchro transmission would be great. I was quoted 10-12 week lead time. Decided not to wait until mid-Jan... Maybe another time as Mitchell has excellent reputation/support.

mrtexas · 10-20-2015, 07:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ccb360

The synchro transmission would be great. I was quoted 10-12 week lead time. Decided not to wait until mid-Jan... Maybe another time as Mitchell has excellent reputation/support.

I can sell you transmission case for cheap, like $25 plus shipping. Mitchell requires a core. In round numbers $1000 for new gears and $2000 for Mitchel synchro.

CarlG · 10-20-2015, 10:09 AM

Sometimes trying to save time and/or money ends up taking more time and money than if you had followed your initial plan.

Maclab58 · 10-20-2015, 12:17 PM

A member of the Fort Worth Texas model a club has a transmission shop and rebuilds model a transmissions and provides a warranty. I will pick one up from Gary on Saturday for a lot less than what just the gears would have cost.I will keep you all posted on the progress. Thank you for all y'all's input!

10-16-2015, 05:34 PM	#1
Maclab58 Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Wichita Falls, Texas Posts: 983	Transmission rebuild Toolin down the street in my slant window cabriolet today an deveed a rhythmic clunking noise in first gear. Not good. It has always had a whine in second gear and third was always good. I limped it home and drained the oil out of it and heard an ominous clunk in the oil drain pan. It was a complete tooth off of a gear. I can't tell which gear it is off of yet. Plan to drop the trans tomorrow and do the autopsy. What would y'all do? Replace it all with new gears, shafts and bearings or just replace the offending gear. This is my touring vehicle. If someone has a Mitchell I sure would entertain the swap. Thanks!

10-16-2015, 05:39 PM	#2
Mitch//pa BANNED Join Date: May 2010 Location: Bucks County, PA Posts: 11,454	Re: Transmission rebuild as a starting point use Tom Endys list of basic essential parts on any rebuild ( bearings, shafts etc.... once you tear it down you can figure out what gears are needed...

10-16-2015, 05:57 PM	#3
Maclab58 Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Wichita Falls, Texas Posts: 983	Re: Transmission rebuild I use Tom's List three years ago when I rebuilt the transmission on my early 28 sport coupe. I replaced everything but transmission case last time. And it is a great running transmission now. I wonder though did I do too much? Should I have just replace the gears that were actually bad.

10-16-2015, 06:01 PM	#4
1955cj5 Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: Boise, Idaho Posts: 1,607	Re: Transmission rebuild I was curious so I looked up Tom Endy's articles...here is a link.. http://www.santaanitaas.org/technica...tech-articles/ __________________ Early '29 CCPU that had a 4-speed, but not any more.......in the family since '62

10-16-2015, 08:28 PM	#7
CarlG Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Anchorage, Alaska Posts: 9,192	Re: Transmission rebuild My second Model A (in 1958 or so) had a missing tooth on one of the gears. I just replaced that one gear and it worked like a charm. Got the new gear at NAPA. __________________ Alaskan A's Antique Auto Mushers of Alaska Model A Ford Club of America Model A Restorers Club Antique Automobile Club of America Mullins Owner's Club

10-17-2015, 07:01 AM	#8
RonC Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Rhode Island Posts: 1,868	Re: Transmission rebuild Why did the tooth break? You may have pending failure with a mating tooth from another gear. It's best to keep used gear sets together for noise. Also if you have any pitting on the tooth wearing surfaces replace that gear. That pitting is breakdown of the gear surface and creates noise. Any teeth that are rounded or abused looking toss. My guess is your gears are beat from improper shifting. Always replace all shafts and bearings. If you can afford it buy all new gears made by Mark Auto. They are the best gears. Ask your vendor before buying. If you do your top stay away from repro shifter shafts they are hit or miss junk. They cause hang ups while shifting. There are people who can redo your original

10-17-2015, 07:46 AM	#9
mrtexas Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Sugar Land, TX Posts: 4,420	Re: Transmission rebuild I'll sell you a complete set of good used gears and shafts for $50+$15 postage. I got many sets of gears from a Model A junkerman for cheap! Have 5 or 6 sets still. Someone else I sold a set to for $50 said they were better than he expected. Get your restored shifter shaft from Berts. They will sell you one for less than I can get one replated! The 3 sets of gears and shaft I had are sold out. Still have some cluster gears. Gee got more response out of this post than a want ad. The last time I posted about the gears only sold one set! Last edited by mrtexas; 10-18-2015 at 01:34 PM.

10-17-2015, 09:48 AM	#10
Maclab58 Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Wichita Falls, Texas Posts: 983	Re: Transmission rebuild I am headed to the shop now to start pulling the trans out. Will update once te autopsy is complete.

10-17-2015, 09:23 PM	#13
Maclab58 Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Wichita Falls, Texas Posts: 983	Re: Transmission rebuild Well guys here is the follow up spent a few hours pulling the reared and transmission. Got the tranny apart and found original gears, date stamped 3/31. They were all worn but the klinker was the cluster gear. It was gaulded with very heavy wear and pitting. Plan at this point is new gears, shafts and bearings. This is my tour car so I need to be able to depend on it.

10-19-2015, 11:19 AM	#16
CarlG Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Anchorage, Alaska Posts: 9,192	Re: Transmission rebuild If it were mine, and I was going to replace all the guts, I'd send the empty case to Mitchell and have them put their all new synchro gears in. __________________ Alaskan A's Antique Auto Mushers of Alaska Model A Ford Club of America Model A Restorers Club Antique Automobile Club of America Mullins Owner's Club

10-20-2015, 07:05 AM	#17
ccb360 Member Join Date: May 2014 Location: Portsmouth, VA Posts: 66	Re: Transmission rebuild The synchro transmission would be great. I was quoted 10-12 week lead time. Decided not to wait until mid-Jan... Maybe another time as Mitchell has excellent reputation/support.

10-20-2015, 10:09 AM	#19
CarlG Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Anchorage, Alaska Posts: 9,192	Re: Transmission rebuild Sometimes trying to save time and/or money ends up taking more time and money than if you had followed your initial plan. __________________ Alaskan A's Antique Auto Mushers of Alaska Model A Ford Club of America Model A Restorers Club Antique Automobile Club of America Mullins Owner's Club

10-20-2015, 12:17 PM	#20
Maclab58 Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Wichita Falls, Texas Posts: 983	Re: Transmission rebuild A member of the Fort Worth Texas model a club has a transmission shop and rebuilds model a transmissions and provides a warranty. I will pick one up from Gary on Saturday for a lot less than what just the gears would have cost.I will keep you all posted on the progress. Thank you for all y'all's input!