The Ford Barn

GB SISSON · 07-14-2015, 09:45 AM

Ever since I installed the engine in my '47 I have had to adjust the clutch to keep the pedal free play at about an inch. After a few days it has too much free play so I lengthen the clevis rod. I have replaced the split bushing on the cross shaft. The pressure plate was carefully inspected and the clutch disc was a used one that had lots of life left and appeared in good shape. Throw out bearing is new and pilot bushing was checked with an input shaft and found normal. I greased it a small amount. Flywheel was properly torqued and safety wired, pressure plate bolts are correct type, torqued and lock tited. This is perhaps the 6th or 7th time I've installed a flathead and never anything like this before. Another symptom is that it is hard to engage a gear from neutral. Had lots of crash box trannys, and this one behaves very well on the road. Just doesnt seem like the clutch fully dissengages. It doesn't creep or anything like that. One down side is it's an 11" clutch and I'm using a car pan so I cant look in there. Yesterday I had to weld a nut onto the clevis because lengthening it further was getting risky. Yes, I should have had the flywheel turned and all new clutch components, but Never have in the past. Is the disc wearing, or does that decrease the free-play. Clutch engages about half way off floor, truck starts off smoothly, no judder. What's going on in there?

George/Maine · 07-14-2015, 11:41 AM

The pin in horz shaft to fork may have sheared.

WestCoast · 07-14-2015, 12:53 PM

im with George on his post, put a line mark on the shaft and the throw out bearing arm, when the clutch looses adjustment check to see if the line is still lined up

Ross F-1 · 07-14-2015, 01:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GB SISSON

...One down side is it's an 11" clutch and I'm using a car pan so I cant look in there. ...

Not sure what the oil pan has to do with the clutch? I run a car pan, too. There is an inspection cover on the BH that gives a perfect view of the throwout and disc.

V8 Bob · 07-14-2015, 02:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ross F-1

Not sure what the oil pan has to do with the clutch? I run a car pan, too. There is an inspection cover on the BH that gives a perfect view of the throwout and disc.

Can't do that on an early pre-8BA engine unless you have the two-piece truck oil pan.

Ross F-1 · 07-14-2015, 02:29 PM

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According to his signature, the '47 has an 8BA. Are you saying the '47 trans doesn't have an inspection hole?

V8 Bob · 07-14-2015, 03:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ross F-1

According to his signature, the '47 has an 8BA. Are you saying the '47 trans doesn't have an inspection hole?

You're right Ross, there should be an inspection opening on the '47 trans, and I didn't pay attention to the details at the bottom of his post stating an 8BA in the '47.

51504bat · 07-14-2015, 03:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by V8 Bob

You're right Ross, there should be an inspection opening on the '47 trans, and I didn't pay attention to the details at the bottom of his post stating an 8BA in the '47.

I believe he is referring to his '47 panel which has a 59ab. His '47 2 ton flatbed has the 8ba if I remember correctly.

GB SISSON · 07-14-2015, 07:11 PM

Ok, I just finally got back from a jobsite. Now I have to meet my wife in town to get to some friends 25th anniversary party. Sheesh, when can a guy ever get to work on his truck? And 5140bat hit the nail on the head... I have 2 '47s ... well actually 3 because the half ton pickup waits in the wings. That would be awesome if the pin is sheared. Bust out the drill, new pin, end of story. Maybe I'm not a hack mechanic after all.

George/Maine · 07-14-2015, 07:43 PM

On a big truck if there is any wield mints on clutch linage check that first.

GB SISSON · 07-14-2015, 11:28 PM

So I climbed under the truck real quick and I see the shaft meets the inner shaft in a square fork arrangement. When you say the pin may have sheared is it inside the bell housing like I have to pull the trans? I'm hoping you mean the pin I can see from the outside. Tomorrow after work I guess I will get to take a good look......

scooder · 07-15-2015, 05:27 AM

GB, I'd think it's inside the bell mate, there is a pin outside but it's just a locator, this is where the shaft from the frame joins the shaft in the bell. That has a pin, but just a locator really, by allmeans check him as you can see him, but if that pin has snapped, the two parts (frame to bell and the one through the bell) would have just slid apart and the clutch pedal would do nothing.
The shaft that goes through the bell is I think your issue. The pin through the throw out fork I think has sheared.
I think if you pull the pin where the two shafts meet on the outside of the bell, then put a big adjustable wrench on the flats of the one sticking out of the bell, and heave on it backwards you should feel the fork contact the trans case and then heave a bit more, you should be able to tell if the pin has sheared.
I'm pretty sure this is the issue, but I'm not there laying underneath it.
If it is, it's trans out time, sorry.
Martin.

George/Maine · 07-15-2015, 05:39 AM

I had a problem one time and had a bad wield if so could be failing.

GB SISSON · 07-15-2015, 08:45 AM

Is there a pin holding the arm that the adjustable clevis is attached to? The one directly at the brake pedal near the frame rail.

scooder · 07-15-2015, 09:30 AM

Can't picture what bit your on about?
The adjustable link between pedal and first clutch shaft (the one that goes from frame to bell) has a clevis pin at each end.
The first clutch shaft fits to the frame by slipping over a ball that's part of the casting with the two bolts through the frame rail.
Martin.

GB SISSON · 07-15-2015, 10:14 AM

Crawled under again and it looks like the vertical arm and the cross shaft are all one forging. Without using any instruments, it appears that the arm is very close to plumb and the rectangular joint with the pin through it is at 90 degrees to it, or very nearly horizontal. I'll look at the one in my 2 ton and see if the position is much different. Not thrilled about pulling that greasy old tranny.

scooder · 07-15-2015, 12:31 PM

Yup, it's a one piece forging.
Looks like your gonna get greasy bud.
Martin.

GB SISSON · 07-15-2015, 04:52 PM

Quit work early, gonna sweep the shop floor and then I'm goin' in........ Details at eleven.

GB SISSON · 07-15-2015, 05:55 PM

Well, first off I pulled the inspection cover. Lots of fresh gray dust... Then I notice the spoon shaped forks are looking kind of flat. Then I notice some idiot put the throw out bearing in backwards. At least I think it is...On the throw out bearing I'm looking at a larger machined surface towards the fork and a smaller, radiused corner towards the clutch fingers. If the 3 fingers on the clutch are messed up then I'll have to pull the pan because some idiot used a car pan without the access cover even though he had two truck pans on the premises. Maybe my worst wrenching blunder yet. Not sure I have what it takes to pull that tranny in my dark little shop. Maybe I do the unthinkable and call my buddy that has a 3 lift repair shop. It's a dark day in Olga Wa.

41LjH · 07-15-2015, 06:15 PM

You may have already eliminated this but I believe there has been some comment about the clutch fork. Here are a couple of pictures of my 39 top loader . The fork is held on the shaft by a bolt. If the bolt fails is will make the operation erratic if it works at all.
Good luck, hope this helps.

07-14-2015, 09:45 AM	#1
GB SISSON Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: Orcas Island Washington Posts: 5,881	clutch question Ever since I installed the engine in my '47 I have had to adjust the clutch to keep the pedal free play at about an inch. After a few days it has too much free play so I lengthen the clevis rod. I have replaced the split bushing on the cross shaft. The pressure plate was carefully inspected and the clutch disc was a used one that had lots of life left and appeared in good shape. Throw out bearing is new and pilot bushing was checked with an input shaft and found normal. I greased it a small amount. Flywheel was properly torqued and safety wired, pressure plate bolts are correct type, torqued and lock tited. This is perhaps the 6th or 7th time I've installed a flathead and never anything like this before. Another symptom is that it is hard to engage a gear from neutral. Had lots of crash box trannys, and this one behaves very well on the road. Just doesnt seem like the clutch fully dissengages. It doesn't creep or anything like that. One down side is it's an 11" clutch and I'm using a car pan so I cant look in there. Yesterday I had to weld a nut onto the clevis because lengthening it further was getting risky. Yes, I should have had the flywheel turned and all new clutch components, but Never have in the past. Is the disc wearing, or does that decrease the free-play. Clutch engages about half way off floor, truck starts off smoothly, no judder. What's going on in there? __________________ Owner/Operator of 'Jailbar Ranch' on the side of Mt. Pickett. Current stable consists of 1946 1/2 ton pickup turned woodie wagon with FH V8, 1946 Tonner Pickup with 226 H six, 1979 Toyota landcruiser wagon, now wearing 1947 Ford Jailbar sheet metal. 'Rusty ol' floorboards, hot on their feet' (Alan Jackson)

07-14-2015, 11:41 AM	#2
George/Maine Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Mid coast Maine Posts: 1,878	Re: clutch question The pin in horz shaft to fork may have sheared.

07-14-2015, 12:53 PM	#3
WestCoast Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Location: oroville calif Posts: 892	Re: clutch question im with George on his post, put a line mark on the shaft and the throw out bearing arm, when the clutch looses adjustment check to see if the line is still lined up

07-14-2015, 02:29 PM	#6
Ross F-1 Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: NM Posts: 2,443	Re: clutch question Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) According to his signature, the '47 has an 8BA. Are you saying the '47 trans doesn't have an inspection hole? __________________ '52 F-1, EAB flathead

07-14-2015, 07:11 PM	#9
GB SISSON Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: Orcas Island Washington Posts: 5,881	Re: clutch question Ok, I just finally got back from a jobsite. Now I have to meet my wife in town to get to some friends 25th anniversary party. Sheesh, when can a guy ever get to work on his truck? And 5140bat hit the nail on the head... I have 2 '47s ... well actually 3 because the half ton pickup waits in the wings. That would be awesome if the pin is sheared. Bust out the drill, new pin, end of story. Maybe I'm not a hack mechanic after all. __________________ Owner/Operator of 'Jailbar Ranch' on the side of Mt. Pickett. Current stable consists of 1946 1/2 ton pickup turned woodie wagon with FH V8, 1946 Tonner Pickup with 226 H six, 1979 Toyota landcruiser wagon, now wearing 1947 Ford Jailbar sheet metal. 'Rusty ol' floorboards, hot on their feet' (Alan Jackson)

07-14-2015, 07:43 PM	#10
George/Maine Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Mid coast Maine Posts: 1,878	Re: clutch question On a big truck if there is any wield mints on clutch linage check that first.

07-14-2015, 11:28 PM	#11
GB SISSON Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: Orcas Island Washington Posts: 5,881	Re: clutch question So I climbed under the truck real quick and I see the shaft meets the inner shaft in a square fork arrangement. When you say the pin may have sheared is it inside the bell housing like I have to pull the trans? I'm hoping you mean the pin I can see from the outside. Tomorrow after work I guess I will get to take a good look...... __________________ Owner/Operator of 'Jailbar Ranch' on the side of Mt. Pickett. Current stable consists of 1946 1/2 ton pickup turned woodie wagon with FH V8, 1946 Tonner Pickup with 226 H six, 1979 Toyota landcruiser wagon, now wearing 1947 Ford Jailbar sheet metal. 'Rusty ol' floorboards, hot on their feet' (Alan Jackson)

07-15-2015, 05:27 AM	#12
scooder Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Posts: 2,595	Re: clutch question GB, I'd think it's inside the bell mate, there is a pin outside but it's just a locator, this is where the shaft from the frame joins the shaft in the bell. That has a pin, but just a locator really, by allmeans check him as you can see him, but if that pin has snapped, the two parts (frame to bell and the one through the bell) would have just slid apart and the clutch pedal would do nothing. The shaft that goes through the bell is I think your issue. The pin through the throw out fork I think has sheared. I think if you pull the pin where the two shafts meet on the outside of the bell, then put a big adjustable wrench on the flats of the one sticking out of the bell, and heave on it backwards you should feel the fork contact the trans case and then heave a bit more, you should be able to tell if the pin has sheared. I'm pretty sure this is the issue, but I'm not there laying underneath it. If it is, it's trans out time, sorry. Martin.

07-15-2015, 05:39 AM	#13
George/Maine Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Mid coast Maine Posts: 1,878	Re: clutch question I had a problem one time and had a bad wield if so could be failing.

07-15-2015, 08:45 AM	#14
GB SISSON Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: Orcas Island Washington Posts: 5,881	Re: clutch question Is there a pin holding the arm that the adjustable clevis is attached to? The one directly at the brake pedal near the frame rail. __________________ Owner/Operator of 'Jailbar Ranch' on the side of Mt. Pickett. Current stable consists of 1946 1/2 ton pickup turned woodie wagon with FH V8, 1946 Tonner Pickup with 226 H six, 1979 Toyota landcruiser wagon, now wearing 1947 Ford Jailbar sheet metal. 'Rusty ol' floorboards, hot on their feet' (Alan Jackson)

07-15-2015, 09:30 AM	#15
scooder Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Posts: 2,595	Re: clutch question Can't picture what bit your on about? The adjustable link between pedal and first clutch shaft (the one that goes from frame to bell) has a clevis pin at each end. The first clutch shaft fits to the frame by slipping over a ball that's part of the casting with the two bolts through the frame rail. Martin.

07-15-2015, 10:14 AM	#16
GB SISSON Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: Orcas Island Washington Posts: 5,881	Re: clutch question Crawled under again and it looks like the vertical arm and the cross shaft are all one forging. Without using any instruments, it appears that the arm is very close to plumb and the rectangular joint with the pin through it is at 90 degrees to it, or very nearly horizontal. I'll look at the one in my 2 ton and see if the position is much different. Not thrilled about pulling that greasy old tranny. __________________ Owner/Operator of 'Jailbar Ranch' on the side of Mt. Pickett. Current stable consists of 1946 1/2 ton pickup turned woodie wagon with FH V8, 1946 Tonner Pickup with 226 H six, 1979 Toyota landcruiser wagon, now wearing 1947 Ford Jailbar sheet metal. 'Rusty ol' floorboards, hot on their feet' (Alan Jackson)

07-15-2015, 12:31 PM	#17
scooder Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Posts: 2,595	Re: clutch question Yup, it's a one piece forging. Looks like your gonna get greasy bud. Martin.

07-15-2015, 04:52 PM	#18
GB SISSON Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: Orcas Island Washington Posts: 5,881	Re: clutch question Quit work early, gonna sweep the shop floor and then I'm goin' in........ Details at eleven. __________________ Owner/Operator of 'Jailbar Ranch' on the side of Mt. Pickett. Current stable consists of 1946 1/2 ton pickup turned woodie wagon with FH V8, 1946 Tonner Pickup with 226 H six, 1979 Toyota landcruiser wagon, now wearing 1947 Ford Jailbar sheet metal. 'Rusty ol' floorboards, hot on their feet' (Alan Jackson)

07-15-2015, 05:55 PM	#19
GB SISSON Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: Orcas Island Washington Posts: 5,881	Re: clutch question Well, first off I pulled the inspection cover. Lots of fresh gray dust... Then I notice the spoon shaped forks are looking kind of flat. Then I notice some idiot put the throw out bearing in backwards. At least I think it is...On the throw out bearing I'm looking at a larger machined surface towards the fork and a smaller, radiused corner towards the clutch fingers. If the 3 fingers on the clutch are messed up then I'll have to pull the pan because some idiot used a car pan without the access cover even though he had two truck pans on the premises. Maybe my worst wrenching blunder yet. Not sure I have what it takes to pull that tranny in my dark little shop. Maybe I do the unthinkable and call my buddy that has a 3 lift repair shop. It's a dark day in Olga Wa. __________________ Owner/Operator of 'Jailbar Ranch' on the side of Mt. Pickett. Current stable consists of 1946 1/2 ton pickup turned woodie wagon with FH V8, 1946 Tonner Pickup with 226 H six, 1979 Toyota landcruiser wagon, now wearing 1947 Ford Jailbar sheet metal. 'Rusty ol' floorboards, hot on their feet' (Alan Jackson)