49-51 trans different from 52 and later?

[LazarusLong]

Guys,I ran across a score on 2 early Ford 3-speed OD transmissions from the guy I bought the 51 FOM from,and he was telling me a guy came down from up north and bought two other early Ford transmissions from him that he said were for 52 and newer Fords,and different from the 49-51 transmissions.

Another source told me that the 51 transmissions were different than the 49 and 50's.

Is any of this true,and if it is,what are the differences and how do you identify them?

Thanks,

Arthur

[tubman]

I don't know about '52-'53's, but I do know '51 Overdrive transmissions are different from '49-'50's. I think regular transmissions are the same. I know that's not much help, but I have both a '50 and '51 overdirive transmision in my shop and could take pictures if you need.

[LazarusLong]

Originally Posted by tubman

I don't know about '52-'53's, but I do know '51 Overdrive transmissions are different from '49-'50's. I think regular transmissions are the same. I know that's not much help, but I have both a '50 and '51 overdirive transmision in my shop and could take pictures if you need.

Thanks,I would appreciate that. The guy said he thought the buyer said something about the difference being a bolt hole somewhere that was related to the switch to swing brake and clutch pedals in 52.

He had no idea the 51's were different.

Pictures as well as casting numbers would be real helpful. I bought both of the OD transmissions he had left,and even though they look alike to me,the casting numbers are different.

Hope to have my 51 on the road next week,so maybe I can find out there if there are any problems with the one in my car. If there isn't I will be putting one or both of them up for sale,and need to know what I would be selling.

Then again,I thought I would be driving my 51 about 3 weeks ago,too. And 2 weeks ago,and 4 week ago.........

[Ross F-1]

Yes, all 3-sp's got changes in '51. Parts from the 51-on ones can't be mixed with parts from early ones, but complete 51-on gearsets will fit into the earlier cases.

[tubman]

Now that yopu mention it, the change in pedals would have necessatated a change in the transmission. The difference in overdrive transmissions is due to changes made to the transmission tunnel for the new Fordomatic in 1951. I'll take some pictures tomorrow.

Ross is also correct about the gear changes from '50 to '51. I believe the '49-'50 gears are compatible with the pre-49 transmissions, while the '51's and later are not.

As an aside, did you change from your original intention of trying to get a Ford-a-matic for your 6 cylinder?

[itsa52]

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Take a look at this and see if it helps http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/t...#post-10961084

[Cecil/WV]

'52-56 will all interchange from one car to the other, although the '55-'56 are top loading. The '52-54 are better transmissions, based on my experience with running in second gear OD at high rates of speed when I was a teenager in my '55.

[donald1950]

49 & 50 are the same internally and externally. 51 have the 52 and up gears so internals will not change with 49 & 50, do not know about externals. 52 and up trans mount is further back on case

[Ross F-1]

Donald, are you talking about Car transmissions?

[LazarusLong]

Originally Posted by Ross F-1

Yes, all 3-sp's got changes in '51. Parts from the 51-on ones can't be mixed with parts from early ones, but complete 51-on gearsets will fit into the earlier cases.

Thanks for the info.

[LazarusLong]

Originally Posted by tubman

Ross is also correct about the gear changes from '50 to '51. I believe the '49-'50 gears are compatible with the pre-49 transmissions, while the '51's and later are not.

This is confusing because Ross said they are. Does this mean individual 51 and later parts won't mix with 49 and 50 parts,but you can swap all the gears at once into an earlier case?

Originally Posted by tubman

As an aside, did you change from your original intention of trying to get a Ford-a-matic for your 6 cylinder?

Nope. I bought a 51-52 FOM from the same guy I got the two od trans from. I even took it to a friend of mine that has been restoring cars since the 60's and dropped it off for him to take it apart and tell me what I need,and then rebuild it for me. He is in his 80's and has been rebuilding these things since the 50's. The trans was totally stuck. Couldn't rotate the input shaft or move the shift levers. When I pulled the dip stick it was bone dry and had what looked like spots of condensation rust on it. The guy I bought these trans from bought them from another guy that bought 20 or trans from a junk yard closing up over 20 years ago. I think the one I bought might even be a NOS FOM that just sat on a shelf dry,and has been sitting around dry all these years and that's why it's stuck. Not a spot of grease on the case or pan anywhere,just light surface rust. All the bolt heads look perfect,etc,etc,etc. My friend agrees this might be the case,but for now he is going to soak it in Marvel Mystery Oil for a week or so and then take it apart to see what's what. Since it was stuck I got it for scrap price,so if it is junk I'm not out anything. If it is just stuck,I may have made a major score. Time will tell.

BTW,my plan is to keep the 3-speed od trans in the car if I can. I bought the FOM and am looking for all the associated parts to put it in my car because the VA botched a leg operation on me several years ago,and killed the circulation. My leg has became infected several times since,and the VA keeps wanting to amputate it. So far I have been able to avoid amputation,but if/when it does happen I would no longer be able to drive the 51,so I want to have all the necessary parts to convert it over to an original FOM car on hand and ready to go. Better to have it and not need it than it is to need it and not have it.

Plus,when I die someone will be able to buy a complete FOM change over kit at my estate sale if I don't use it myself.

I should be driving my 51 on the highway sometime this week,and then I can find out if 2nd and 3rd gear and the OD are good or not. So far I have only yard driven it in first and reverse.

[Ross F-1]

Originally Posted by LazarusLong

This is confusing because Ross said they are. Does this mean individual 51 and later parts won't mix with 49 and 50 parts,but you can swap all the gears at once into an earlier case?

....

Yes, the changes in 51 did not affect the case dimensions. You can put 51 and later complete gearsets into an earlier case, but you can't mix 51 and later gears in with earlier gears.

[LazarusLong]

Originally Posted by Ross F-1

Yes, the changes in 51 did not affect the case dimensions. You can put 51 and later complete gearsets into an earlier case, but you can't mix 51 and later gears in with earlier gears.

Thank you for clearing this up. I am saving these comments in my 51 Ford file so I have them if I ever need them.

[rotorwrench]

FoMoCo changed over to diamond cut pattern gears in the 1951 model year. Some early 51s have the 49/50 type transmissions. The tooth counts changed also. This is why the internals don't interchange. The swing pedal change in 1952 was more related to the clutch linkage and bell housing interface. The trans cases will still bolt up to the bell housing since the four bolt Borg Warner pattern is all the same. Mercury cars started using the Ford type transmission in early 1951 but the Mercs had a different bell housing & clutch. The Ford types all use the 1-inch 10-spline input shaft so the complete transmissions can be swapped both ways. Most Fords used the same output yoke too in that time frame.

I have several friends that are walking around and working full time jobs with below the knee leg appliances. One of them still kick starts his old motorcycle with his good leg. He has zippers sewn into his pant legs so he can easily remove his prosthetic and adjust his stump socks. There are set ups where you can install a hand operated clutch if your left leg is on the fritz. I have even seen a stirrups set up on helicopter control pedals so the amputee's can still fly. I've known several folks that felt they were better off after the amputation than they were before. A person can have phantom pain in the foot that's gone but many had worse pain from the foot before the amputation. I don't wish injury on any one but several folks have proved to me that just about anything can be overcome with enough drive.

[LazarusLong]

Originally Posted by rotorwrench

FoMoCo changed over to diamond cut pattern gears in the 1951 model year. Some early 51s have the 49/50 type transmissions. The tooth counts changed also. This is why the internals don't interchange. The swing pedal change in 1952 was more related to the clutch linkage and bell housing interface. The trans cases will still bolt up to the bell housing since the four bolt Borg Warner pattern is all the same. Mercury cars started using the Ford type transmission in early 1951 but the Mercs had a different bell housing & clutch.

Thanks for the detailed explanation.


[QUOTE]
I have several friends that are walking around and working full time jobs with below the knee leg appliances. </I>

Yeah,but I'm betting none of them are pushing 70 and also have bad knees,bad shoulders,and lots of arthritis problems. Some days I can't even twist the top off of a soft drink bottle because my hands won't close that far.

Haven't ridden my Harley in about 15 years because I can't always raise my leg high enough to get on a FLH with a lowered swing arm.

Getting old is not as much fun as you might think it would be.

[JSeery]

Know how you feel, I have arthritis bad and my wife has Lupus and arthritis! But the working on cars keeps you loosed up some.