The Ford Barn

mshmodela · 05-28-2015, 06:35 PM

I've been working an issue with my model A engine and I'm going to pull the valve cover to see if the # 1 cylinder valve's are sticking... (compression is 50lbs like the other 3 cylinders). Can the valve cover be removed without removing the exhaust manifold? The one blot near #4 cylinder seem very close to touching the manifold.. Engine backfires under load only.

Thank you,

Gary WA · 05-28-2015, 06:36 PM

Yes you can remove cover!

CarlG · 05-28-2015, 06:38 PM

Yes, you can remove the valve cover without removing the manifolds. It is tight & you will need to use an open end wrench. Going back is also a little tedious, but it can be done.

Mitch//pa · 05-28-2015, 07:14 PM

Hi Mike,
i would remove the manifolds it makes it easier and at the same time the manifold gaskets get serviced, but as others have said you can fight around them... as far as a valve sticking there are other ways to diagnose that. i have been following your other posts and i'm not exactly sure what your exact symptoms are.. was it just a fouled plug? is the engine misfiring? have you had anyone local peek at it? i know you played with the vacuum gauge did it tell you anything? i never use a vaccum gauge except for checking mechanical fuel pressure. as far as i'm concerned its a waste as there are better methods for diagnosing..
feel free to PM me or call the shop i can walk you through these things

mshmodela · 05-28-2015, 07:34 PM

Mitch,

I made a video of my cold and hot run of the vacuum test... The links are here:

https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showthread.php?t=169090

cold
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DGvCkZ8GNzY

and hot:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fkgo6J8T8Fw

I did not see that vacuum dip on the other cylinders...

Looking in at the # 1 cylinder (uploading a video of that) there is black like tar near the valve. Other valves have most carbon and have the appearance of the spark plugs so they appear ok.. The thread above show more of what I've tried, like 1/2 can of seafoam in the oil --per the can's instruction's... It seems to my hear there is some light tapping noise near #1 cylinder using a mechanic's scope... very slight but without any load and increasing the rpm's and letting it drop --no backfire... I replaced the modern point condenser. She started fine.... I will try a short drive/ load test of that tomorrow. I have a new coil, but my thinking is lack of good spark to #1 is not the issue --the black gook in #1 cylinder is.

Mitch//pa · 05-28-2015, 07:49 PM

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

Mike
i looked at your vacuum videos it didnt tell me squat...
i hate to see someone jump around sticky valves or weak spark etc ,...
to ends of the spectrum

Mitch//pa · 05-28-2015, 07:53 PM

if you want to buy a couple valuable tools get a leak down tester which can help determine the condition of the motor and a good spark tester.

from what i'm hearing your not misfiring? correct

Tom Wesenberg · 05-28-2015, 11:14 PM

I saw the occasional flicker in the vacuum gauge, but is didn't indicate a slow to close valve, or it would have been more steady. I would drive the car up a slight hill in third gear and accelerate slightly. If one of the four cylinders has a miss you will surely feel it while pulling the hill.

larrys40 · 05-28-2015, 11:41 PM

I would agree with Mitch that the vacuum video shown didn't really indicate a problem or indicate much. You stated it was a slow idle yet it really seemed to be a very high idle to me... and the valve train fairly noisy.. which could indicate excessive clearance or maladjusted valves.

A leakdown tester used properly will test for leakage in the cylinder and valve sealing.
I would recommend doing that and see if you have a sealing issue on the valves/seats. If so that can be repaired but may lead to a valve job on the whole engine as it many times does. I wouldn't pull the valve cover unless you think you have to adjust the lifters ( if they are adjustable).

When shorting the plug at idle does the #1 cylinder short make a difference?
Careful troubleshooting and diagnosis will lead you quickly to the source.
If you need to service the valves I would agree with Mitch that removing the manifold will give you greater access and give you the opportunity to check/surface/regasket the I/E manifolds.

Larry Shepard

05-28-2015, 06:36 PM	#2
Gary WA Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Clinton,WA/Whidbey Island Posts: 4,457	Re: Valve cover Yes you can remove cover! __________________ www.whidbeymodelaclub.com

05-28-2015, 06:38 PM	#3
CarlG Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Anchorage, Alaska Posts: 9,192	Re: Valve cover Yes, you can remove the valve cover without removing the manifolds. It is tight & you will need to use an open end wrench. Going back is also a little tedious, but it can be done. __________________ Alaskan A's Antique Auto Mushers of Alaska Model A Ford Club of America Model A Restorers Club Antique Automobile Club of America Mullins Owner's Club

05-28-2015, 07:34 PM	#5
mshmodela Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2014 Location: Cleveland, Ohio Posts: 2,765	Re: Valve cover Mitch, I made a video of my cold and hot run of the vacuum test... The links are here: https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showthread.php?t=169090 cold https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DGvCkZ8GNzY and hot: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fkgo6J8T8Fw I did not see that vacuum dip on the other cylinders... Looking in at the # 1 cylinder (uploading a video of that) there is black like tar near the valve. Other valves have most carbon and have the appearance of the spark plugs so they appear ok.. The thread above show more of what I've tried, like 1/2 can of seafoam in the oil --per the can's instruction's... It seems to my hear there is some light tapping noise near #1 cylinder using a mechanic's scope... very slight but without any load and increasing the rpm's and letting it drop --no backfire... I replaced the modern point condenser. She started fine.... I will try a short drive/ load test of that tomorrow. I have a new coil, but my thinking is lack of good spark to #1 is not the issue --the black gook in #1 cylinder is. __________________ -Mike Late 31' Ford Model A Tudor, Miss Daisy I don't work on cars --I'm learning about my Model A. Cleveland, Ohio Last edited by mshmodela; 05-28-2015 at 07:50 PM.

05-28-2015, 07:49 PM	#6
Mitch//pa BANNED Join Date: May 2010 Location: Bucks County, PA Posts: 11,454	Re: Valve cover Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) Mike i looked at your vacuum videos it didnt tell me squat... i hate to see someone jump around sticky valves or weak spark etc ,... to ends of the spectrum

05-28-2015, 07:53 PM	#7
Mitch//pa BANNED Join Date: May 2010 Location: Bucks County, PA Posts: 11,454	Re: Valve cover if you want to buy a couple valuable tools get a leak down tester which can help determine the condition of the motor and a good spark tester. from what i'm hearing your not misfiring? correct

05-28-2015, 06:35 PM	#1
mshmodela Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2014 Location: Cleveland, Ohio Posts: 2,765	Valve cover I've been working an issue with my model A engine and I'm going to pull the valve cover to see if the # 1 cylinder valve's are sticking... (compression is 50lbs like the other 3 cylinders). Can the valve cover be removed without removing the exhaust manifold? The one blot near #4 cylinder seem very close to touching the manifold.. Engine backfires under load only. Thank you, __________________ -Mike Late 31' Ford Model A Tudor, Miss Daisy I don't work on cars --I'm learning about my Model A. Cleveland, Ohio

05-28-2015, 07:14 PM	#4
Mitch//pa BANNED Join Date: May 2010 Location: Bucks County, PA Posts: 11,454	Re: Valve cover Hi Mike, i would remove the manifolds it makes it easier and at the same time the manifold gaskets get serviced, but as others have said you can fight around them... as far as a valve sticking there are other ways to diagnose that. i have been following your other posts and i'm not exactly sure what your exact symptoms are.. was it just a fouled plug? is the engine misfiring? have you had anyone local peek at it? i know you played with the vacuum gauge did it tell you anything? i never use a vaccum gauge except for checking mechanical fuel pressure. as far as i'm concerned its a waste as there are better methods for diagnosing.. feel free to PM me or call the shop i can walk you through these things Last edited by Mitch//pa; 05-28-2015 at 07:20 PM.

05-28-2015, 11:14 PM	#8
Tom Wesenberg Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Mpls, MN Posts: 27,582	Re: Valve cover I saw the occasional flicker in the vacuum gauge, but is didn't indicate a slow to close valve, or it would have been more steady. I would drive the car up a slight hill in third gear and accelerate slightly. If one of the four cylinders has a miss you will surely feel it while pulling the hill.

05-28-2015, 11:41 PM	#9
larrys40 Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: St Charles , Missouri Posts: 2,032	Re: Valve cover I would agree with Mitch that the vacuum video shown didn't really indicate a problem or indicate much. You stated it was a slow idle yet it really seemed to be a very high idle to me... and the valve train fairly noisy.. which could indicate excessive clearance or maladjusted valves. A leakdown tester used properly will test for leakage in the cylinder and valve sealing. I would recommend doing that and see if you have a sealing issue on the valves/seats. If so that can be repaired but may lead to a valve job on the whole engine as it many times does. I wouldn't pull the valve cover unless you think you have to adjust the lifters ( if they are adjustable). When shorting the plug at idle does the #1 cylinder short make a difference? Careful troubleshooting and diagnosis will lead you quickly to the source. If you need to service the valves I would agree with Mitch that removing the manifold will give you greater access and give you the opportunity to check/surface/regasket the I/E manifolds. Larry Shepard