Rim Liners - Do you need them?

[Hoogah]

Just in the process of replacing a wheel and have removed the tyre from the old rim. There was no rim liner there and I wonder if I should get one before I put the tyre back onto a new rim that I have just painted.

Should I? Why / Why not?

(I didn't come up with anything on this is a thread search of FordBarn.)

[700rpm]

Liners provide an extra shield against abrasion on your innertubes. Cheap insurance against a flat.

[Mitch//pa]

yes

[Jacksonlll]

You need something between your tube and the base of the wheel. They are cheap, but in as bind, I have used a few wraps of duct tape.

[DougVieyra]

"Do you need them?"
______________________________

Yes. Most all wheel inner rims develope rust over time - due to weather and/or condensation. The rust, over time, will begin to slowly invade the surface-to-surface contact area between the rim and the inner-tube. After some more time, the rust will invade into the inner-tube, and eventually cause a breach in the rubber's capacity to hold air.

This is especialy true if you leave your car exposed to the weather, and/or have your car a very long time. If, on the other hand you install good tubes (carefull here - good tubes have been difficult to find*) onto a very well finished and painted wheel inner-rim, then you should get several years of 'no issue' use without the rim liner. The important thing to note is that you must sell the wheels/tires before the rust problem manifests itself, and it will. Then the problem will be someone else's.

* Some progress has been made recently by Bratton's to once again produce a well-made and durable inner-tube. You might inquire as to which other Parts Dealers he wholesales them to.

- Doug Vieyra

[WestCoast]

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they are needed, but the first line of defense for tube protection is to have the inside sand blasted then painted with a heavy coat of paint, then a quality rim liner, if you cant find one use black electrical or duct tape, this is needed to protect the tube from rust and the spoke heads inside the rim, I believe the sell a rubber gromet that goes in the valve stem hole to protect the valve stem from being cut by the rim

[Jwilli]

Several laps of good duct tape is better than no liner. A quality liner is better.

[C26Pinelake]

Originally Posted by DougVieyra

"Do you need them?"
______________________________

Yes. Most all wheel inner rims develope rust over time - due to weather and/or condensation. The rust, over time, will begin to slowly invade the surface-to-surface contact area between the rim and the inner-tube. After some more time, the rust will invade into the inner-tube, and eventually cause a breach in the rubber's capacity to hold air.

This is especialy true if you leave your car exposed to the weather, and/or have your car a very long time. If, on the other hand you install good tubes (carefull here - good tubes have been difficult to find*) onto a very well finished and painted wheel inner-rim, then you should get several years of 'no issue' use without the rim liner. The important thing to note is that you must sell the wheels/tires before the rust problem manifests itself, and it will. Then the problem will be someone else's.

* Some progress has been made recently by Bratton's to once again produce a well-made and durable inner-tube. You might inquire as to which other Parts Dealers he wholesales them to.

- Doug Vieyra

Doug is right on! The enemy you are fighting is called rust. Wayne

[hardtimes]

Originally Posted by Hoogah

Just in the process of replacing a wheel and have removed the tyre from the old rim. There was no rim liner there and I wonder if I should get one before I put the tyre back onto a new rim that I have just painted.

Should I? Why / Why not?

(I didn't come up with anything on this is a thread search of FordBarn.)

Yes, some type of 'liner' in necessary ,IMO.
Why...to prevent chaffing of ever flexing rim/tube/tire.
How to:
This is my method that has turned out to be bullet proof,eh ;
Clean, then paint, then wrap several wraps of thousand mileanhour tape (aka Gorilla tape) around center of wheel, then spray couple of coats of liquid rubber spray over tape. This spray keeps intertube from chafing and allows flexing....and prevents moisture from getting into anything sprayed.
I have taken tires off of restored rims years later, and the process is still pristine. That rubber spray is the stuff that is sold to SEAL electrical connections against water and what I make tool handles with also. Also , available in several colors. BTW...have NEVER had a flat tire on my old cars with this process.

[RockHillWill]

Just for what it's worth, I noted this week as I mounted the tires for the speedster, if you add a small amount of air to the inner tube without a tire on it, the tube does NOT touch the area where a liner is used. It would be reasonable to believe that it does contact that surface when contained inside a mounted tire, but it is my opinion that the contact pressure of the tube would not be as strong in that area as the rest of the exposed area of the wheel. I have just always thought that it was an added wear protector for the area of the wheel that is 'upset' as a result of the wire spokes being attached.

As always, just a random thought from an old man!

[Hoogah]

The catalogues have two types of product for this purpose:

• Rim Liner - 1.5" wide - approx $2.50
• Rim Flaps - 4" wide - approx $37.50

I don't understand the reason for the enormous difference in price, with the flaps being more than the cost of a rubber stemmed tube! Would the narrow liners cover 90% of the risk for less than 10% of the price?

I'm leaning towards Hardtimes' option (Post #9).

Option - has anyone simply cut down an old tube (would need to be smaller for a snug fit, I guess) to create a rim flap? Cost = $0!

And, is there anything else that can be done to preserve the life of the tube? e.g. Does a dusting of powder all over the tube on installation do anything other than make you feel good at the time?

One more question: How long should I leave the freshly painted wheel for the paint to harden before mounting the tyre? (I've never painted anything on a car before).

[WestCoast]

the difference between the liner and flap is the liner only covers the bottom of the rims where the spokes are, the flap is molded to fit inside the rim to cover the spokes and go up the sides of the rim, and yes talcum powder will be a lot of help

[Mike V. Florida]

Originally Posted by Hoogah

The catalogues have two types of product for this purpose:

• Rim Liner - 1.5" wide - approx $2.50
• Rim Flaps - 4" wide - approx $37.50

I don't understand the reason for the enormous difference in price, with the flaps being more than the cost of a rubber stemmed tube! Would the narrow liners cover 90% of the risk for less than 10% of the price?

Thicker than a regular liner or tube?

I'm leaning towards Hardtimes' option (Post #9).

Seems to be a lot of work and expense when liners will work.

Option - has anyone simply cut down an old tube (would need to be smaller for a snug fit, I guess) to create a rim flap? Cost = $0!

Should work if you have such a tube hanging around.

And, is there anything else that can be done to preserve the life of the tube? e.g. Does a dusting of powder all over the tube on installation do anything other than make you feel good at the time?

Buy the best quality you can, and yes the talc will help reduce wear.

One more question: How long should I leave the freshly painted wheel for the paint to harden before mounting the tyre? (I've never painted anything on a car before).

Depends on the paint.

....

[Tom Wesenberg]

I always use talc to install inner tubes. It helps them slip into position without folds.

Now that I've touched talc, I wonder how long before Dewey, Cheatum, and Howe will be advertising on TV that I deserve money from a class action lawsuit against the company for possibly causing cancer to thousands of people?

[MikeK]

I don't know why or when the general assumption that 'talcum' was the go-to power for tires and tubes got started. Talc use for tires was uncommon before WWII. Rubber product manufacturers used fine ground silver mica in the USA.

If you look at a NOS USA made tube you will notice a slightly metal-flake type reflectance from the powder applied by the manufacturer. Thats silver mica! It is also used to make 'pearl' paints and was once used as a dry lubricant for muzzle loading firearms and cannons!

Powered or fine ground steam expanded silver mica is far superior to talc for tube tires. Mica is a natural flake mineral and works like graphite with the flake slip planes. Talc does not. Mica is inert to water. Talc hydrates to goo. An inner tube under high pressure will still slip against liners, flaps, and the tire if dusted well with mica upon assembly. Talc not so much under pressure. Talc is best for pool ques, baby hinies, and lawyers!

My dad was a B.F. Goodrich distributor in the early 50's and the stuff (powdered mica) was used in all name-brand new-tire shops for tube-type tires. It was liberally slathered with a thick 4" brush inside tires and over the rim liners, and on tubes upon assembly. Just before inflation to seat the beads the rim bead wall contact area and tire bead sides were carefully wiped clean with a rag moist with turpentine to slightly swell the fresh bead into a good locked contact and prevent rim slippage. Inner tubes were completely inflated/deflated twice and the tire bounced around each time before mounting on the car, truck, or tractor. Flats from pinched/ripped/chaffed tubes? Never!

[dumb person]

Where would you get the powdered mica?

[MikeK]

Originally Posted by dumb person

Where would you get the powdered mica?

For a small quantity, Here: LINK

Two bags should do several tires and tubes. You can get it in 20Kg bulk sacks from the manufacturers/producers but the freight cost is outrageous unless you buy a metric ton of bags on a pallet or a shipping container load.

[Hoogah]

Well, thanks guys. As Bill Williamson (or his Dog) would say, I've been well edumacated by this discussion. Today I visited our local(-ish!) Model A parts supplier and purchased some narrow rim liners. My parts man told me that the rim flaps are mainly used for split rims and probably wouldn't accommodate a standard Model A tube inside the tyre anyway (so did Don Turley!).

Not sure if I'll get the mica powder, but will at least use talc on installation.

Resolution.