flywheel / ring gear Q...

[hardtimes]

I have an aluminum flywheel (Stipe) that is balanced with pressure plate and the steel face plate. I just put a ring gear on this flywheel.
Two questions: -since ring gear is pretty uniform in structure, must the whole flywheel be rebalanced ?

Also, I'm concerned about this ring gear staying put on the alum flywheel in the long run, because of dissimilar metals (expansion/contraction, etc). Anyone think that this situation should be 'pegged/staked' and just how is that accomplished...machinist

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

In the perfect world, yes you would re-balance however if it were off say 10 grams, I doubt you would ever feel it by the seat of your pant.

As far as "staking it", set it up on the Mill and drill every 90 degrees exactly between the flywheel and the ring gear. Tap the 4 holes and thread in a ¼-20 set screws and Loctite them in. It will not rotate. Unless you are using a rotary table and extreme accuracy, you would likely need to balance after this operation.

.

[Dodge]

You can also use button head allens to do the same thing. You shouldn't need to re-balance
if you evenly space the screws.

[Synchro909]

The ring gear on one of my cars had been hit with a hammer (I assume), the result was that it had "grown" and was loose on the flywheel. In fact, it moved on me one time so I took it off and simply heated it and refitted in the normal way. To make sure it never happened again, I used a couple of drops of loctite - can't remember the umber but it was the one for post assemebly application also known as "super wickin". No problem in the years since. IT's an easy fix, not problem to take apart again sometime with a little heat and won't affect balance.

[Synchro909]

Just went to the workshop and checked. Number 290 Loctite. Wonderful stuff!

[hardtimes]

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Well, thanks to all for this great help/info !
I did heat ring gear and cooled alum flywheel and the two went together very nicely ...actually too nicely ! That got me to thinking about the problems that I have read about here and other places...about the gear moving as Syncro stated also.
I think that I can now accomplish this task from the help here !

BTW...there must be at least one guy here who runs and/or has tried the Stipe type aluminum flywheel. If so, please give feedback on whether any negatives on using such. Opinions..anyone ?

[George Miller]

My experience with the reproduction ring gears is they are a little to big in the bore. They tend to creep on the flywheel from the starter Bendix in gauging. I would stake it.

Of course it is like a lot of repo model A parts, not made to ford specs.
Just helped a Guy yesterday with the rebuild of his front end. A lot of the parts were off. As a old machinist that made lots of parts in my day, it is not that hard to get it right.

[Terry, NJ]

In the trade, we used to call these kind of screws "dutchmen" and it has always seemed to me that with good sharp tools the balance would not be affected if the holes went completely through leaving no weight variations for the uneven depth of the hole. I would not tap all the way through though.I would use a nut threaded onto the tap as a stop. "Staking" is simply pushing the metal up against the other piece with a center punch. It seldom holds up for very long. The dutchman is a better solution.
Terry

Originally Posted by BRENT in 10-uh-C

In the perfect world, yes you would re-balance however if it were off say 10 grams, I doubt you would ever feel it by the seat of your pant.

As far as "staking it", set it up on the Mill and drill every 90 degrees exactly between the flywheel and the ring gear. Tap the 4 holes and thread in a ¼-20 set screws and Loctite them in. It will not rotate. Unless you are using a rotary table and extreme accuracy, you would likely need to balance after this operation.

.

[johnneilson]

Rick,

I have used a couple Stipe flywheels with no problems except one.
The crank flange bolts worked loose on one, not due to flywheel issue, more of driver control. It did not do any damage except to the flywheel itself and has been re-machined and put back into service. In fact, it is a nice piece, built by a craftsman if you know what I mean.

I used to do ring gear replacements for Porsche and Hi perf VW's, IF the machining is done correctly there is no need to stake or pin the ring gear.

John

[colin1928]

Rick never heard of a problem with Bills flywheels
But like I was worried about the aluminium shrinkage when cold
so put 2 stakes in just for peace of mind

[hardtimes]

Originally Posted by George Miller

My experience with the reproduction ring gears is they are a little to big in the bore. They tend to creep on the flywheel from the starter Bendix in gauging. I would stake it.

Of course it is like a lot of repo model A parts, not made to ford specs.
Just helped a Guy yesterday with the rebuild of his front end. A lot of the parts were off. As a old machinist that made lots of parts in my day, it is not that hard to get it right.

Hey George,
'a little big in the bore'....is exactly what I'm concerned with, although not skilled at this stuff like You/John/colin ! We all admire Stipe perfection /pride in his work product. However, it is aluminum and the ring gear is steel ! IMO, if you hammer ring gear...on a softer metal, with starter ... well ! Maybe I'm tooo cautious, but it is getting harder/harder (for ME) to take a car apart these days , and an abundance of caution i.e.-staking/pinning seems logical to this neophyte...

[hardtimes]

Hey Terry, thanks !
Yup, I've heard that term in my life time. However, I think that Brent and the rest knew what I meant and I know what they meant in their responses.
What do you guys think about use of some super 'locktite agent as suggested by synchro ? Good idea or no in this case (alum/iron)?

[hardtimes]

Originally Posted by colin1928

Rick never heard of a problem with Bills flywheels
But like I was worried about the aluminium shrinkage when cold
so put 2 stakes in just for peace of mind

Hey colin,
Thanks ! Did you feel that your setup had to be rebalanced after adding the two 'stakes'. Mine has already been balanced and it ain't cheap neither Hate the expense of a re-balance. I kind of like the suggestion of one stake every 90 degrees, but two sounds good

[hardtimes]

Originally Posted by johnneilson

Rick,

I have used a couple Stipe flywheels with no problems except one.
The crank flange bolts worked loose on one, not due to flywheel issue, more of driver control. It did not do any damage except to the flywheel itself and has been re-machined and put back into service. In fact, it is a nice piece, built by a craftsman if you know what I mean.

I used to do ring gear replacements for Porsche and Hi perf VW's, IF the machining is done correctly there is no need to stake or pin the ring gear.

John

Hey John,
I'm curious and hope that your answers give me direction in use of this alum flywheel. Were you using SIX crank bolts when it 'worked loose' ? And, do you use lock washers/lock tite or what process to fasten final assembly !
Yeah, 'if done properly', I agree. But, as said, the bore of the flywheels has been found to be out of spec ? George is not the first that I've heard that from. Too much at risk here to not use extra caution/staking !

[johnneilson]

Rick,

6 bolts, ARP, hardened flat washers and locktite.
The crank flange threads gave up. As I was taking it apart I found the bolts loose.
Right then and there, I tightened them and could not take 50 ft# torque.
The bolts looked perfect, threads that is, no signs of movement and threaded right into hardened nuts like they are supposed to. The crank was toast, bent an 1/8" on center journal also. This was a 3 bearing motor and just convinced me to run 5 bearing setups on all race motors.

I now use 8 bolts and make the flanges thicker on the cranks for more bolt engagement.

John

[hardtimes]

Hey John ,
Thanks for that information !
I'm using six ARP made for Chev Tilton flywheel. 80lbs torque , locktite and NO washers they say...or void any warranty ..hm ? They also directed to put the special assembly lube that they sent, under the bolt heads prior to torqueing !
I , most likely, will not turn anything close to what you do with your equipment, but then I can not machine new stuff as you do either !
Let us know how 'your girdle' fits / works

[colin1928]

Originally Posted by hardtimes

Hey colin,
Thanks ! Did you feel that your setup had to be rebalanced after adding the two 'stakes'. Mine has already been balanced and it ain't cheap neither Hate the expense of a re-balance. I kind of like the suggestion of one stake every 90 degrees, but two sounds good

I did recheck the balance NO change
I only drilled and taped for 1/4" headless grub screws and they only weigh a few grams and closely equal what was removed by drilling and taping
I also thought about 4 or 6 stakes but as said I had no reason to think it necessary mine come from Bill with the ring gears fitted
does he now supply without the ring gear

[George Miller]

Originally Posted by hardtimes

Hey George,
'a little big in the bore'....is exactly what I'm concerned with, although not skilled at this stuff like You/John/colin ! We all admire Stipe perfection /pride in his work product. However, it is aluminum and the ring gear is steel ! IMO, if you hammer ring gear...on a softer metal, with starter ... well ! Maybe I'm tooo cautious, but it is getting harder/harder (for ME) to take a car apart these days , and an abundance of caution i.e.-staking/pinning seems logical to this neophyte...

Alum will grow more than steel when hot. So I would not worry about that.
The gear should be heated before you put it on. If done right it will drop on the flywheel, just tap it lightly after it is on to make sure it is seated. If you do not want to tap holes in the flywheel you could use roll pins and put them on a angle at the edge of ring gear and flywheel. I used a 1/8 inch roll pins one time and did it by just taking the starter out. Make sure they are 90 degrees apart and drill all 4 holes the same depth. If you are using a hand drill put a piece of masking tape around the drill at the depth you want. A little lock tight would not hurt.
You can get 90 degrees by turning the hand crank 1/4 turning for each hole. If you ever do it in the car.

As far as Bills flywheels you can bet they are right on.

[hardtimes]

Hey George,
Thanks for your experience/practical input, I like the details Options are good and this is a good one.