installing solid body rivets

[Vin-tin]

I've been working on my mid-'30 closed cab pickup cab off and on now for the last couple of years. The cab was completely taken apart when I bought it. Last winter I finally got 90% of the cab assembled using small machine screws and nuts to hold everything temporarily in alignment.

My question is, what method and tools do you guys use to install the solid body rivets?
Do I need to go out and buy expensive rivet tools or is there a cheap, old school approach?

[wrndln]

I have done a fair amount of body riveting. I have found that you really need a 3X or maybe even a 4X rivet gun, not an air hammer to set the body rivets cold. A cheap Harbor Freight air hammer will work, kind of, but the long throw 3X works much better. Since my wife wont help me much anymore on the car, I have found ways to set body rivets by myself. I am attaching a couple of pictures of a setup I made to rivet floor pans and other 3/16" rivets. It consists of 1" solid steel rod pieces and 1" pieces of pipe and couplings. With short pieces of rod and pipe, I can adjust the length to provide a buck for different areas (heights). I use a hydraulic press plate to prevent chipping the concrete floor. I have more pictures of my riveting stuff if you want to see them. Send me an PM with your email address. BTW, you can usually pickup used 3X rivet guns for a good price on eBay, that is what I did.
Rusty Nelson

[Vin-tin]

Thanks Rusty. PM sent.

[oj]

Like Rusty said, I do a bunch myself. You can find all the right tools on ebay with 'used aircraft tools' in your search. You'll find all you need. I get rivets from mcmaster-carr.

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

Originally Posted by wrndln

?...my wife wont help me much anymore on the car ....

[Mike V. Florida]

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YES use a rivet gun not an air hammer. Night and day!!!!

[ericr]

at the risk of sounding stupid, what is the difference between a rivet gun and an air hammer with the specific bit sold by the dealers to waffle-head the body rivets?

[wrndln]

ericr,
The gun riveting bits (actually any bit) will fit either tool with a .401 diameter shank, which is nearly all air hammers and rivet guns. A 3X or 4X rivet gun has a longer body to accommodate the longer stroke for the rivet guns. The longer stroke makes riveting work much better. Below is a link to a 3X rivet gun on eBay.
Rusty Nelson

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Aircraft-too...item462a2a316d

[Rowdy]

Much agreed. An air hammer will work harden the rivets before they are properly bucked. Rod

[woodiewagon46]

I just purchased everything I need to replace the floors in my '29 business coupe last week at Hershey. Big Flats Rivet Co. has all the correct sizes and tools for Model As. I purchased an air chisel set at Lowes for $19.95 and used it with the "waffle" tool for the correct finish required for the Model A and it worked great!

[Vin-tin]

[QUOTE= Below is a link to a 3X rivet gun on eBay.[/QUOTE]

Rusty, I seen that one on ebay, plus a lot of others. Finding a rivet gun should be easy. The hard part is figuring out how to set rivets by myself.
Your pictures and ideas are a big help and I should be able to figure something out.
I'm in the same boat as you mentioned earlier...my wife doesn't share my enthusiasm for model A's and doesn't help me either.
(Brent, that's not funny)

[Rowdy]

Vic do a web search for bucking rivets. Likely you will find some good instructions. I posted a link on a previous thread quite awhile back, but am posting from my phone right now and have not figured out how to cut and paste links. Be sure to get a regulator directly on the gun so you can fine tune it to your shop pressure and material used. Also use some scraps and some extra rivets and practice afew before you risk damaging your valuable sheetmetal. Rod

[Kevin in NJ]

The guns labeled by an x (where the number roughly equates to the length of the pistion throw) are special for aircraft aluminum rivets. They are designed to all give the same impact to properly set the rivets for aircraft work (read certified building of an airframe).

As I recall they have a 1/2" diameter piston and all with the same weight.

Aluminum is very picky about how many hits it will take till it work hardens. So to properly squish the rivet you need the right even number of hits. A larger rivet needs a larger hammer force per hit so you need a longer barrel hammer.

The X guns also have a regulated rate of hits per second.

Or at least this is what I figured out between talking to the AP mechanics at work and the aviation supply websites.

Automotive air hammers are all over the place. They tend to have a 5/8" piston and loosely barrel lengths based on inches. The common cheap gun is 1" and will not have the energy per hit to do much. There is a wide varity of gun types and it is not easy to find the particulars of the different guns. To buy a longer throw automotive gun is not cheap, unless you do like me and stumble on some real real cheap at garage sales (by accident no less).

I have a 4" throw automotive unit and I can get very stuck spring perches out of axles with it.

So it anyone is having troubles setting a rivet with their gun they should also qualify which gun they are talking about. The key understanding is an automotive gun is going to have more power per hit for the same length X type gun. Both guns can do the job if you have the right one for the job.

If you see any long nosed air guns in the $10 to $20 range you might want to pick it up. I think you will find they can be pricey to by used on ebay. They can be quite useful.



I should also point out. Some rivets are best set by having the air gun on the head of the rivet and the buck on the end that needs to be peened. I believe the body rivets are best done this way with a waffle buck.

[Mike V. Florida]

Originally Posted by ericr

at the risk of sounding stupid, what is the difference between a rivet gun and an air hammer with the specific bit sold by the dealers to waffle-head the body rivets?

Not stupid at all!!!
Think of it this way, you are driving a nail into a piece of wood. You hold the hammer close to the head and swing it 1 inch high before hitting the nail (air hammer), now you hold the hammer at the end of the handle swinging the hammer several feet from the nail (rivet gun).

Rivet gun will get the job done better.

[Mad Mac]

To install the big rivets along the rear cab panel of my 29 Roadster Pickup I used an old Model A drive-shaft with one end slightly tapered and made concave to fit the head of the rivet. Then I got a friend to hold the drive-shaft firmly against the rivet head while I hit the other end with a hammer. It worked surprisingly well and achieved a nice tight join, even without using any heat. Today 25 years later there is still no play or looseness in the rivets at all. No fancy rivet guns were used.

[oj]

You might be able to add an air valve to the airchisel to regulate it. You have to have control to direct the impact or it'll bounce off the rivet on the first hit and the next three will dink metal around the rivet.
I have a 3X sunex and it'll get down to phutt...phutt.
A big thing about riveting is getting the metal right, it has to be perfect before the rivet will set right. A nut and bolt will accomodate distorted metal and force the sides to flat and parallel. A rivet won't. The metal has to be clamped super tight, a rivet won't draw loosely joined panels - if there is a gap the rivet can even force them apart. The rivet body has to fit the hole tight, the length is as precise as the diameter.
To get a good idea of how to do it go to amazon and buy a used aircraft maintenance book, they'll have a huge section on how to rivet.
Like eveything else it is always more complicated than it should be.