Radiator Question

[Lembomw]

This is a question for those who have non-stock Model A engines.

I had a touring engine built so that I can drive at highway speeds. The rebuilt engine has pressurized mains, counterbalanced crank, cut flywheel, Stype 340 cam, oversized intake valves, Weber carb, cast iron header, 6.1 head, and FSI electronic ignition and a Rupert water pump. Also has an F-150 4 speed.

Will a stock re-cored Model A radiator be able to provide necessary cooling?

I will greatly appreciate your advice.

[Fred]

I see no problem, in fact it may run cooler..

[Tom Wesenberg]

I agree, and in fact since you are not stock, you might as well get a Berg's 10 fin per inch radiator.

[Lembomw]

Fred/Tom, thank you for your responses. At this time I have a Brassworks 10 fin per inch radiator on the car. Problem is that I had it on the old engine that was just chocked full of rust and other debris. While I flushed the engine before installing the Brassworks radiator I think that during the short time I drove it before having the engine done I may have plugged some of the tubes. I took it to a radiator shop that works with lots of Model A radiators and he said that he is unable to rod the Brassworks radiator since the tubes and fins are very thin and it would fall apart if he took the top and bottom tanks apart. I do have a stock Model A radiator and if that will work well with the higher performance engine I will take that up and see if they can rod it out to make sure it is working properly since the tubes are wide and copper thicker than the modern cores. Based on your responses it looks like a stock radiator should do the job, so I will bring the old one I have up to be cleaned out.

Thanks again, Mark

[Duffy1]

You could send it back to Brass works and see if they can clean it up and at the same time make it where you can put a 4 psi cap on it and run a closed over flow system . My set up is just like yours and I have a brass works pressurized radiator and run AC . 95 degrees out side 60 mph no problem . Temp reads 185 degrees.

[Joe K]

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Guys, you're all treating this like he's going to have problems.

In actuality, with the higher compression ratio, he'll have a more efficient engine and actually have less heat release.

I.e. more energy of the fuel gets turned over to moving the car instead of heating the air that goes through the radiator.

As to pressurizing the system - do that if you want, but you will gain only some more margin against boil-over - and a higher cylinder temperature which may aid combustion efficiency slightly. And will reduce cylinder wear slightly. (We're talking the difference between 160F and 200F here.)

A 10 fin radiator is serious overkill for this instance. And may in fact impede cooling. There is (as yet unstudied) an optimal distance for fin spacing: at some addition point more fins does not equal more cooling.

So use it if you have it, but if you have a 7 or 8 fin I wouldn't sweat it - and maybe save the higher number fins for those cars who really need it?

And where you would seem to be headed...

Joe K

[Fred]

Originally Posted by Joe K

Guys, you're all treating this like he's going to have problems.

In actuality, with the higher compression ratio, he'll have a more efficient engine and actually have less heat release.

I.e. more energy of the fuel gets turned over to moving the car instead of heating the air that goes through the radiator.

As to pressurizing the system - do that if you want, but you will gain only some more margin against boil-over - and a higher cylinder temperature which may aid combustion efficiency slightly. And will reduce cylinder wear slightly. (We're talking the difference between 160F and 200F here.)

A 10 fin radiator is serious overkill for this instance. And may in fact impede cooling. There is (as yet unstudied) an optimal distance for fin spacing: at some addition point more fins does not equal more cooling.

So use it if you have it, but if you have a 7 or 8 fin I wouldn't sweat it - and maybe save the higher number fins for those cars who really need it?

And where you would seem to be headed...

Joe K

Really ??

[Tom Wesenberg]

I would backflush the radiator and block yourself. I bought this pedestal sump pump at a garage sale for $5 and spent about another $5 on the fittings. Turn the radiator upside down with the cap off and you sould be able to clean any rust junk out of the tubes. I've heard of many radiator shops that will charge a fair amount of money and not really do much, or some won't even look at any older radiator.

Look at the amount of rust I got out of the block. Each picture is the amount of rust from that flushing. I dumped the water about 7 times before no more rust was coming out.

[Purdy Swoft]

My engines with higher compression heads (5.9) actually run cooler .

[Mike V. Florida]

Originally Posted by Duffy1

You could send it back to Brass works and see if they can clean it up and at the same time make it where you can put a 4 psi cap on it and run a closed over flow system . My set up is just like yours and I have a brass works pressurized radiator and run AC . 95 degrees out side 60 mph no problem . Temp reads 185 degrees.

Should be cheaper then replacing what you have.

[Joe K]

Originally Posted by Fred

Really ??

Sorry. Mark headed..

Best regards in any case...
Joe K

[Ryan]

Ok. Next uncivil comment ends in closed accounts.

[Rex_A_Lott]

Originally Posted by Tom Wesenberg

I would backflush the radiator and block yourself. I bought this pedestal sump pump at a garage sale for $5 and spent about another $5 on the fittings. Turn the radiator upside down with the cap off and you sould be able to clean any rust junk out of the tubes. I've heard of many radiator shops that will charge a fair amount of money and not really do much, or some won't even look at any older radiator.

Look at the amount of rust I got out of the block. Each picture is the amount of rust from that flushing. I dumped the water about 7 times before no more rust was coming out.

Tom, were you flushing with vinegar here, or just straight water?
I usually just use a water hose, but I like the sump pump idea. Thanks for posting the pics.

[machine girl]

A good stock radiator will be fine, if you start spraying water at faster speeds and are not over heated, slow the water flow down with a thermostat, will fix that problem.

[Tom Wesenberg]

Originally Posted by Rex_A_Lott

Tom, were you flushing with vinegar here, or just straight water?
I usually just use a water hose, but I like the sump pump idea. Thanks for posting the pics.

I used water to do this flushing after driving with pure white vinegar for 30 days. Right after I took these pictures the snow and cold hit hard and fast, so I had to quickly drive the car into the garage and install the radiator there. Since I didn't get a chance to neutralize the vinegar, I think some more rust formed over the winter, even though I had a dry block and ran the engine a couple times for a couple minutes to make sure it was dry.

Right now I have Evaporust in the block and will drain it as soon as the rain quits so I can drive it out of the garage.

[Lembomw]

Thank you all for your detailed responses, this running hot is making me crazy trying to figure out what to fix. I have had problems with the "modern" gasket that Snyder's recommends to use with their 6.1 head. Blew 2 head gaskets in 1200 miles. Yesterday I pulled the head and today brought it to a machine shop to check to make sure it is flat..if not will be machined flat. Monday I will call Brassworks to see if they can take the radiator apart and rod the tubes ($65 shipping each way though). I am also taking the old stock radiator that came with the car 3 years ago to the radiator shop and ask them to try and take it apart to rod. If it breaks while they are doing it no big deal, it is plugged anyway and not usable as it is. Between getting the head flat and getting at least one radiator in 100% working order the heating problem should be fixed. It is interesting to know that having the high compression head and I assume the other things that were done to the engine to make it more powerful and efficient that is should run cooler.

When I finally stumble on the problem and fix what is causing the coolant to go to 220 - 230 degrees while going 55 - 60 mph, and push out 2 quarts of coolant into the recovery tank I will post an update so everyone will know what was done.

Thank you all again. Mark

[modelAtony]

Originally Posted by Lembomw

This is a question for those who have non-stock Model A engines.

I had a touring engine built so that I can drive at highway speeds. The rebuilt engine has pressurized mains, counterbalanced crank, cut flywheel, Stype 340 cam, oversized intake valves, Weber carb, cast iron header, 6.1 head, and FSI electronic ignition and a Rupert water pump. Also has an F-150 4 speed.

Will a stock re-cored Model A radiator be able to provide necessary cooling?

I will greatly appreciate your advice.

No problem. correct radiator in good shape will really run cooler on your set up. Looks like your set up is a little like mine except I have 3.27 rear and Mitchell with stock trans. RUNS LIKE A SPOTTED APE. HAVE FUN MODELATONY TONY WHITE LAFAYETTE,LA