The Ford Barn

jimcarl · 10-18-2013, 03:57 PM

After reading several articles,threads, books on timing, I tackled my 31 SW. Couldn't find the timing wheel dimple by feel, so resorted to visual inspection and successfully positioned it to TDC. Proceeded to adjust cam and rotor to remove as much backlash as possible and felt pretty good about it all. Reassembled everything and tried to start it.
That's when things went south. It cranked a few times, then stopped with a jolt. Starter wouldn't turn at all. Got out to take a look and heard gas pouring from the carb (a Tilly). Removed the carb and there was daylight between the two halves. Tried to turn the engine by hand and it wouldn't budge. So now I am down a carb and can't turn the engine.
Hoping someone will have a great suggestion for releasing the engine and then we will all have a good laugh instead of me spending thousands of dollars on a new engine.
Right?
Much appreciated,
Jim

700rpm · 10-18-2013, 04:05 PM

Try a short phillips screwdriver in the timing pin hole instead of the pin. Sometimes a sharper point can detect the indent on the timing gear. If that doesn't work, remove your front timing cover and enlarge the indent.

Ross/Kzoo · 10-18-2013, 04:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 700rpm

Try a short phillips screwdriver in the timing pin hole instead of the pin. Sometimes a sharper point can detect the indent on the timing gear. If that doesn't work, remove your front timing cover and enlarge the indent.

Or a center punch.

jkeesey · 10-18-2013, 04:17 PM

Yup, sounds like your starter got stuck. Rock it in high gear as described and you may have the timing too far advanced.

Tom Endy · 10-18-2013, 04:31 PM

Whenever you attempt to start a Model A always put the spark advance lever all the way up otherwise the engine can try to fire backwards. When this happens it can jam the starter. This is also how people got broken arms when attempting to crank start the car with the spark lever in the down position.

Tom Endy

rusted · 10-18-2013, 04:34 PM

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Are you sure you were on the compression stroke when you had TDC? Put your thumb over # 1 spark plug hole and feel for the pressure as the piston comes up. You could be 180 degrees off and that is what caused the starter to lock up.

jimcarl · 10-18-2013, 04:44 PM

Thanks all, for your quick attention. Rocking it in high gear was the solution - thankfully!
Thanks Tim for being the first to recommend this and to you Jon for confirming.
Tom, I'd seen your spark advance warning in another thread, so believe me, I am listening to that advice!
Good ideas for finding the indent. I'll be trying them right away as I think we all can agree that Tim's quote that "your timing may require further adjustment" is a bit of an understatement!
Jim

jimcarl · 10-18-2013, 04:45 PM

rusted, I'm guessing you are correct in that assumption. Thanks!

ford3 · 10-18-2013, 05:00 PM

just a suggestion to any one replacing the timing gear, always deepen and widen the dimple on the gear it will save your sanity when tunning your engine

jkeesey · 10-18-2013, 05:03 PM

ford3 I would not do either. Instead if anything sharpen the point on the timing pin. The original dimple is not a wear point but if you make it deeper and wider it can misconstrue your true TDC.

ford3 · 10-18-2013, 05:48 PM

jkessey, on most repo cam gears you can barley see the dimple let alone feel it, if you just widen and deepen it just a little the timing pin will fall into it with out using some home made or make shift tool, the timimg pin is there for a purpose, use it

ctvpa · 10-18-2013, 05:51 PM

Les Andrews has a video on you tube on how to time the car. I took my computer to the shop and did it step by step. I hit the pause button, then went to the next step. You need a light socket, 6v light bulb, some wire and 2 alligator clips.
I can idle mine as slow as a hit or miss.

kwisor · 10-18-2013, 06:15 PM

hello all
i was timing my car the other day i did find the dimple with out any problem i had to sharpen the tip in the pin but my question is when i did this i for got to take the pin out and started the car would this have caused any damage to timing gear
kevin
1930 model a tudor
1923 model t roadster p/u

ford3 · 10-18-2013, 06:19 PM

probably not, when the high side of the dimple came up it would have just pushed the timing pin out of the way

kwisor · 10-18-2013, 06:28 PM

thank you ford3
kevin

Tom Endy · 10-18-2013, 06:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ford3

just a suggestion to any one replacing the timing gear, always deepen and widen the dimple on the gear it will save your sanity when tunning your engine

I take it a step further. I paint the dimple with red fingernail polish. When ever I re-set the timing I crank the engine around until the rotor points to the right headlight. Then using a flashlight and a dental mirror I step in front of the bumper put my knee on the crank handle and ease the timing gear the rest of the way around until the red dot is looking at me in the mirror.

Tom Endy

BILL WILLIAMSON · 10-18-2013, 07:31 PM

Jim, to "KNOW" if your timing is correct, with warm engine & idle speed & idle mixture adjusted well.
1- Spark up=a smooth & rythmical, TADA-TADA-TADA-TADA.
2- Spark 1/2 way down=a faster smooth idle.
3- Spark full down=an even faster, but somewhat "rolling" idle.
If you have all these, timing is PERFECT. Bill W.

10-18-2013, 03:57 PM	#1
jimcarl Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2013 Location: Honolulu, HI Posts: 20	Timing exercise gone bad After reading several articles,threads, books on timing, I tackled my 31 SW. Couldn't find the timing wheel dimple by feel, so resorted to visual inspection and successfully positioned it to TDC. Proceeded to adjust cam and rotor to remove as much backlash as possible and felt pretty good about it all. Reassembled everything and tried to start it. That's when things went south. It cranked a few times, then stopped with a jolt. Starter wouldn't turn at all. Got out to take a look and heard gas pouring from the carb (a Tilly). Removed the carb and there was daylight between the two halves. Tried to turn the engine by hand and it wouldn't budge. So now I am down a carb and can't turn the engine. Hoping someone will have a great suggestion for releasing the engine and then we will all have a good laugh instead of me spending thousands of dollars on a new engine. Right? Much appreciated, Jim

10-18-2013, 04:05 PM	#2
700rpm Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 6,039	Re: Timing exercise gone bad Try a short phillips screwdriver in the timing pin hole instead of the pin. Sometimes a sharper point can detect the indent on the timing gear. If that doesn't work, remove your front timing cover and enlarge the indent. __________________ Ray Horton, Portland, OR As you go through life, keep your eye on the donut, not the hole.

10-18-2013, 04:17 PM	#4
jkeesey Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Glenmoore Pa Posts: 1,644	Re: Timing exercise gone bad Yup, sounds like your starter got stuck. Rock it in high gear as described and you may have the timing too far advanced.

10-18-2013, 04:31 PM	#5
Tom Endy Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Southern California Posts: 3,168	Re: Timing exercise gone bad Whenever you attempt to start a Model A always put the spark advance lever all the way up otherwise the engine can try to fire backwards. When this happens it can jam the starter. This is also how people got broken arms when attempting to crank start the car with the spark lever in the down position. Tom Endy

10-18-2013, 04:34 PM	#6
rusted Member Join Date: Dec 2011 Posts: 88	Re: Timing exercise gone bad Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) Are you sure you were on the compression stroke when you had TDC? Put your thumb over # 1 spark plug hole and feel for the pressure as the piston comes up. You could be 180 degrees off and that is what caused the starter to lock up.

10-18-2013, 04:44 PM	#7
jimcarl Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2013 Location: Honolulu, HI Posts: 20	Re: Timing exercise gone bad Thanks all, for your quick attention. Rocking it in high gear was the solution - thankfully! Thanks Tim for being the first to recommend this and to you Jon for confirming. Tom, I'd seen your spark advance warning in another thread, so believe me, I am listening to that advice! Good ideas for finding the indent. I'll be trying them right away as I think we all can agree that Tim's quote that "your timing may require further adjustment" is a bit of an understatement! Jim

10-18-2013, 04:45 PM	#8
jimcarl Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2013 Location: Honolulu, HI Posts: 20	Re: Timing exercise gone bad rusted, I'm guessing you are correct in that assumption. Thanks!

10-18-2013, 05:00 PM	#9
ford3 Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2012 Location: oroville calif. Posts: 1,453	Re: Timing exercise gone bad just a suggestion to any one replacing the timing gear, always deepen and widen the dimple on the gear it will save your sanity when tunning your engine

10-18-2013, 05:03 PM	#10
jkeesey Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Glenmoore Pa Posts: 1,644	Re: Timing exercise gone bad ford3 I would not do either. Instead if anything sharpen the point on the timing pin. The original dimple is not a wear point but if you make it deeper and wider it can misconstrue your true TDC.

10-18-2013, 05:48 PM	#11
ford3 Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2012 Location: oroville calif. Posts: 1,453	Re: Timing exercise gone bad jkessey, on most repo cam gears you can barley see the dimple let alone feel it, if you just widen and deepen it just a little the timing pin will fall into it with out using some home made or make shift tool, the timimg pin is there for a purpose, use it

10-18-2013, 05:51 PM	#12
ctvpa Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: Massachusetts Posts: 479	Re: Timing exercise gone bad Les Andrews has a video on you tube on how to time the car. I took my computer to the shop and did it step by step. I hit the pause button, then went to the next step. You need a light socket, 6v light bulb, some wire and 2 alligator clips. I can idle mine as slow as a hit or miss.

10-18-2013, 06:15 PM	#13
kwisor Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: lexington sc Posts: 456	Re: Timing exercise gone bad hello all i was timing my car the other day i did find the dimple with out any problem i had to sharpen the tip in the pin but my question is when i did this i for got to take the pin out and started the car would this have caused any damage to timing gear kevin 1930 model a tudor 1923 model t roadster p/u

10-18-2013, 06:19 PM	#14
ford3 Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2012 Location: oroville calif. Posts: 1,453	Re: Timing exercise gone bad probably not, when the high side of the dimple came up it would have just pushed the timing pin out of the way Last edited by ford3; 10-18-2013 at 08:34 PM.

10-18-2013, 06:28 PM	#15
kwisor Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: lexington sc Posts: 456	Re: Timing exercise gone bad thank you ford3 kevin

10-18-2013, 07:31 PM	#17
BILL WILLIAMSON Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: FRESNO, CA Posts: 12,560	Re: Timing exercise gone bad Jim, to "KNOW" if your timing is correct, with warm engine & idle speed & idle mixture adjusted well. 1- Spark up=a smooth & rythmical, TADA-TADA-TADA-TADA. 2- Spark 1/2 way down=a faster smooth idle. 3- Spark full down=an even faster, but somewhat "rolling" idle. If you have all these, timing is PERFECT. Bill W. __________________ "THE ASSISTANT GURU OF STUFF" Last edited by BILL WILLIAMSON; 10-19-2013 at 08:41 PM.