Brake adjustment question... wedges vs rods?

[Special Coupe Frank]

Finally got my '28 back together after having all four wheels off to install new brake tracks and new tracks / camshafts in the rear. Oh, and also to install bushings on the e-brake operating lever shafts, which a previous owner apparently thought were not needed...

With the brake rods disconnected at each wheel, I tightened each wedge adjuster until I had heavy-drag / locked-up the wheel, then backed-them off until I had slight / no drag.

Then I adjusted the turnbuckle-clevis eyes until the pin would just slip-in.


Now here's the question: from this point forward, to finish adjusting the brakes using the: pedal 1 " down = rear-drag, no fronts; 1.5" down = heavy rear drag, slight front drag; 2" down = rears locked, heavy front drag formula, at this point am I supposed to adjust the RODS or the WEDGES ?

If I'm supposed to adjust the rod length at this point, it sounds like a two-man job: one to work the brake pedal, and a one under the car ?

Thanks in advance...

SC Frank

[asapguy]

I use a stick placed between the seat & the brake pedal, then add small blocks of wood placed between the seat & stick to get the diff. adjustments for the brake rods.

There are no two man jobs on a Model A. Last Fri. I mounted a tudor body on the chassis by myself.

[Special Coupe Frank]

Originally Posted by asapguy

I use a stick placed between the seat & the brake pedal, then add small blocks of wood placed between the seat & stick to get the diff. adjustments for the brake rods.

There are no two man jobs on a Model A. Last Fri. I mounted a tudor body on the chassis by myself.

Sounds like you're younger / more agile than I am...

That "gettin' down and gettin' back up" thing is becoming an issue for me...


So, do you leave the pedal blocked down then try to pull the pin, adjust the rod, re-install the pin ? Or do you have to release the pedal, make the rod adjustment, then block the pedal and check again ?

[allen]

Frank the way i do it is, jack car all the up all four tires up then adjust my wedge to a very slight drag, then use the wood method with the steps first notch slight drag on the rear second notch rear very had almost locking, third notch rear and front locked, Make sure you have your 15 degree at the front and cross shaft arms straight up and down.

[asapguy]

I leave the blocks in place & check to see if the wheels will turn. 1st setting the rears should be hard to turn, fronts a little friction. 2nd setting backs locked & the fronts heavy drag. 3rd setting all locked. You do have to remove the stick & blocks to adj. I do this with the the car on jack stands. It does require a little trial & error. The front wheels are a little easier because your not fighting the differential. I'm 68 but still feel like 50.

[Smokey Pickett]

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Les Andrews has a pretty comprehensive precedure in his book using this little board with notches cut in it. He goes through all the important checks you need to do before actually finishing the adjustment.

[Special Coupe Frank]

Okay guys - thanks for the replies.

I'm finally ordering the Les Andrew's Book today !

(Suffered long enough without it !)

[JoeWay]

Originally Posted by Special Coupe Frank

Okay guys - thanks for the replies.

I'm finally ordering the Les Andrew's Book today !

(Suffered long enough without it !)

Now you'll be able to start suffering with it!!

Joe

[CarlG]

Originally Posted by asapguy

I use a stick placed between the seat & the brake pedal, then add small blocks of wood placed between the seat & stick to get the diff. adjustments for the brake rods...

I purchased a "tool" from one of the parts houses last year sometime. It looks like a caulking gun with an extreemely long rod and a "U" shaped bracket on one end that clips on the steering wheel. Kinda odd, but works well.

[Mitch//pa]

just thought to mention make sure the car is jacked or supported under the axles not the frame when adjusting.

[Ron in Quincy]

Suggest you start with the clutch pedal rod; adjust so the cross shaft clevis are in a vertical position (this assures that you will get full travel of the cross shaft when applying brake pedal, and not bottoming on rear radis rods); then adjust brake rods to match the clevis as you said you did.

Ron

[Kirby1374]

ok, now I'm confused. So you unhook all the rods, take up the slack on each brake with the adjuster, then use the graduated stick method to set the length of the rods? If so, I was doing it backwards

[Special Coupe Frank]

Originally Posted by Kirby1374

ok, now I'm confused. So you unhook all the rods, take up the slack on each brake with the adjuster, then use the graduated stick method to set the length of the rods? If so, I was doing it backwards

The square-shank adjusting wedge on each backing plate adjusts the "heel" contact of the shoes. This is the starting point.

From there, adjusting the rods changes the shoe-drum clearance at the "toe" of the shoe ( where they spread apart ).

[Kirby1374]

oh, So I was doing it wrong. Thanks

[Special Coupe Frank]

Apparently, I haven't been "going far enough" in the process... haven't messed with the "stepped-block" business yet...

But I was at a point where I needed to know which pieces I should be trying to adjust once I had the wedges set.

The answer, in my situation, is: "the rods".

[dave in australia]

The rods should not be used to adjust for brake engagment, only for setting the cross shaft so the arms are verticle and the arms on the backing plates are front fiftenn degrees fwd and rears fifteen degrees rearward. This gives full movement of the mechanism inside the drum, especially on the front. By bringing the front arms to the verticle position, or further rearward, will limit the available movement of the small arm at the end of the horizontal shaft that pushes the rod down inside the kingpin. The arm does not sit in the centre of the socket at the top of the kingpin, but the shaft is offset forward and the arm faces rearward, and when the brakes are applied, this arm moves down. If it is already partway through its movement by having the main brakes rods adjusted, it can hit the bottom of the socket, stopping any further movement of the arm, preventing any harder brake application. The next time you hear someone complain about bad brakes on an A, look at the front arms and note there position. A majority of the time they will not be facing forward, and thereby have restricted braking, and they have probably use the rods to adjust brakes and not the wedge. The same goes for the rear brakes except the cam toe starts to run under the roller instead of the ramp. I hope this helps you and not confuse you to much. Also, if your brakes are like this, Teds floaters will not help.

[allen]

Not to hi Jack this thread, I just finished Markus super fine 31 s/w. With Ted's floaters, As everyone stated is true the 15 degrees is very important. I was have trouble with this and was looking for one problem turns out it was not one problem but many thing keep me from getting the angle. after installing three pills I step back and started looking over all the parts each one had a little wear the actuator arm was the worse, you cant see this arm without taking it apart. after replacing wedge, arm, and engagement shaft. had the 15 degrees (no pills).
Change drums to cast and turn them and new shoes adjusted them as we talked about. Using the rods only to equal out the drag on each wheel. You have to turn each one (using the wood steppers)
Drove the car yesterday never felt brakes as good no pulling will throw you Thur the windshield very smooth, very happy with Ted's floaters this car brakes better than any juice brake i have..... sorry for the rant

[Special Coupe Frank]

Originally Posted by dave in australia

The rods should not be used to adjust for brake engagment, only for setting the cross shaft so the arms are verticle and the arms on the backing plates are front fiftenn degrees fwd and rears fifteen degrees rearward. This gives full movement of the mechanism inside the drum, especially on the front. By bringing the front arms to the verticle position, or further rearward, will limit the available movement of the small arm at the end of the horizontal shaft that pushes the rod down inside the kingpin. The arm does not sit in the centre of the socket at the top of the kingpin, but the shaft is offset forward and the arm faces rearward, and when the brakes are applied, this arm moves down. If it is already partway through its movement by having the main brakes rods adjusted, it can hit the bottom of the socket, stopping any further movement of the arm, preventing any harder brake application. The next time you hear someone complain about bad brakes on an A, look at the front arms and note there position. A majority of the time they will not be facing forward, and thereby have restricted braking, and they have probably use the rods to adjust brakes and not the wedge. The same goes for the rear brakes except the cam toe starts to run under the roller instead of the ramp. I hope this helps you and not confuse you to much. Also, if your brakes are like this, Teds floaters will not help.

Dave - Thanks for the additional info; I think one of the issues I may be fighting is worn drums and worn-down linings (not quite down to the rivet-heads, but gettin' there ).

I'm going to make-up a stepped-block and do the drag test at each wheel and see where I'm at.

Right now, things are set with the cross-shaft levers vertical, rear levers against their return stops (inside the drum), and front levers slightly ahead of vertical. Wedges are adjusted to a slight drag.

The car stops evenly and I no longer have groaning / shrieking from the LF wheel, but my pedal goes to within an inch of the floor board when stopping the car, more than 1/2-way down...

[Patrick L.]

Frank
Some folks are 'rod' folks and others are 'wedge' folks.. I'm in the rod group.. The way you started is correct, at least for me it is.. However the brake board makes it easier.. Once the wedges are adjusted, I then adjust the rods to get the correct 'drag'.. This takes a lot more time since the board has to be removed to take the tension off the rods.. Once the brakes seem to be adjusted correctly its time for a road-test.. A wheel or two may be in the need for a little more tweaking.. I'll still take the time to adjust the rods.. After that[ once driven for a length of time] I'll usually use the wedges because its so much faster and easier and they usually only need a click or two..

[supergnat]

One other place to look for an adjustment proceedure, especially on a 28, is pages 202 and 203 of the tech bulletins. I have a 28 with the split corss shaft and the tech bulletin proceedure is for that version. Not all of my brake rods are adjustable. I'm in the process of working on my brakes now.
Supergnat