Replacing Rear Spring U-Bolts?

[8EL]

I was going to mount the rear spring on my coupe today. I had purchased new U-bolts, brackets, nuts and carter keys. However it appears that the U-Bolts were installed (probably was a rolling chassis) before the body was installed. There does not appear to be enough clearance between the floor pan and the cross member to remove the bolt for replacement.

Is there some trick to changing out these fasteners? Has anyone done this on a coupe without either cutting access holes in the floor pan or partially raising the body?

I am all ears.........

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

Raise the body. There isn't enough room to do it otherwise. Cutting a hole will look awful and likely haunt you forever.

Also, don't forget to (re)install the rear crossmember anti-squeak to the bottom side of the rear seat panel.

[Synchro909]

Originally Posted by BRENT in 10-uh-C

Raise the body. There isn't enough room to do it otherwise. Cutting a hole will look awful and likely haunt you forever.

Also, don't forget to (re)install the rear crossmember anti-squeak to the bottom side of the rear seat panel.

What body style would require the body being lifted to change the U bolts? All of my Model As have a removable panel under the seat (or in the tray) so that access is easy.
Please also elaborate on anti squeak on the bottom side of the rear seat panel. I've never seen any.

[Phil Brown]

I know in my coupe the "panel" is the seat riser for the rumble seat and originally it was riveted in
I don't think you can get the U-bolts in without raising the body a little bit
Here is a pic of the original anti squeak on the bottom is that panel, you can see it is well-used against the cross-member

[Randy in ca]

Originally Posted by Synchro909

What body style would require the body being lifted to change the U bolts? All of my Model As have a removable panel under the seat (or in the tray) so that access is easy.
Please also elaborate on anti squeak on the bottom side of the rear seat panel. I've never seen any.

I think the only factory removable panels under the seat I've ever seen were on some models of Fordor.

Here's another picture (Marco T's) of the anti squeak:

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[8EL]

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Originally Posted by Synchro909

What body style would require the body being lifted to change the U bolts? All of my Model As have a removable panel under the seat (or in the tray) so that access is easy.
Please also elaborate on anti squeak on the bottom side of the rear seat panel. I've never seen any.

I have a 31 DeLuxe Coupe that does not have the needed clearance on the floor pan to remove the U Bolts as it rests on the frame rails. I need to have another look at how the cross member is attached to the frame rails. I am hoping that they are riveted and that the cross member does not fit flush with the rails. If so it might be easier to just grind the rivet heads flush, drive them out, and remove the cross member, then to unbolt all of the body mounting bolts and raise the body. After replacement of fasteners, the cross member could be bolted back in with grade 8 bolts of the same size as the rivets and Mil Spec self locking nuts.

Can't see why Henry would have built cars for export out of the US any differently in this detail. Most likely one of the hands your cars passed through cut the access panel?

[Keith True]

Is there a reason you are replacing them? Are the old ones bad? That is not a part I would replace with a new one unless I had to,and would prefer good used over new.You will work 100 times harder to remove the rivets and rebolt a rear crossmember than you ever would raising the body.Then you would have to deal with the bolt heads in the way of the bumper brackets and the body mounting blocks.Those holes are not punched perfectly round to begin with,they depended on the red hot rivet to swell and fill the space.You would have to ream the holes to get them the same size to get a tight fit for a bolt.

[8EL]

They are spread, as to say they do not run parallel to one another, and therefore they do not fit their brackets. They have been hammered on previously and had to be forcefully driven out of their brackets on disassembly. The threads have been damaged, I did run a die over them, but the thread form is less than ideal. Some sort of tool would need to be fashioned to pull them in line to install the brackets, and this will probably damage the thread further.

[8EL]

Originally Posted by Phil Brown

I know in my coupe the "panel" is the seat riser for the rumble seat and originally it was riveted in
I don't think you can get the U-bolts in without raising the body a little bit
Here is a pic of the original anti squeak on the bottom is that panel, you can see it is well-used against the cross-member

So in the Model A Ford Mechanics Handbook Volume 1, authored by Les Andrews, On page 1-282 "Installing The Rear Spring" step 3 it states:

"Cut a 6" strip of body welt to be placed the spring and cross member"

I am confused here, mine has nothing between the floor pan and the cross member and there are no signs of any contact of the two surfaces. On the other hand, when I first read this instruction in Andrew's book I also wondered if the mounting U bolts would become loose as this welting compressed over time?

[Big hammer]

Pictures, screw coupling nuts on and squeeze together with a big C-clamp. Raising the body a few inches isn’t a bad job just takes time, use something as simple as an hydraulic jack

[gdmn852]

Hello, I would go with raising the body , bolts near front of car can just be backed off a distance, use some penetrating oil, and keep track of shims between body blocks and frame.Really not as bad as it sounds, done that on a few Coupes and Roadsters and I am not the sharpest tack in the box.

[8EL]

Originally Posted by Big hammer

Pictures, screw coupling nuts on and squeeze together with a big C-clamp. Raising the body a few inches isn’t a bad job just takes time, use something as simple as an hydraulic jack

Thank you, that is a good suggestion incorporating the nuts which would provide a flat surface to push against. I was not getting anywhere with the C- clamp trying to carefully push against the round bolt.

[8EL]

Originally Posted by gdmn852

Hello, I would go with raising the body , bolts near front of car can just be backed off a distance, use some penetrating oil, and keep track of shims between body blocks and frame.Really not as bad as it sounds, done that on a few Coupes and Roadsters and I am not the sharpest tack in the box.

Thank you, the new bolts would be the best option here. The book shows 18 bolts bolting the body to the frame. Did you remove all but the front ones?

[Keith True]

I can't recall 18 bolts holding the body down on a coupe,but they may be adding in the bolts holding the fenders to the running board,and the ones holding the fenders to the splash aprons.Those are the easy to forget ones.Lifting the coupe body is a much,much easier job than you think.It only has to come up a little,the bolts will tip at an angle and come right out.You've probably put more time into thinking about it than it will take you to actually do it.I'm an expert at that.

[Synchro909]

Guys, thanks for the pictures of the anti squeak strip. My Phaeton has a removable panel over the spring, as does the Tudor. My 1930 CCPU has a metal cover in the floor of the tray so none of them require the body to be lifted to get at the U bolts. I find it strange that some styles do and some don't need lifting. Coupes are not common here. They are vastly outnumbered by Phaetons. Even Tudors outnumber them I'd guess.

[8EL]

So what about the location of this squeak strip.....Has anyone installed it between the spring and the cross member like the book I quoted indicates? What were the results?

[Keith True]

I never liked the idea of anything soft between the spring and crossmember,front or rear.The spring needs to be tight against the crossmember,and anything soft will squeeze it's way out before too long.How many front crossmembers have you seen that are all bunged up from the springs chucking around under there? I really don't buy that the U-bolts stretched,But once that strip of leather wore out the spring would slide around in there and just start self-destructing.

[Pete]

Raising the body would be my first choice if I did not have tools for doing body work.

Being familiar with body work and not having to keep the car in judging condition, I cut a hole, fixed the rear end and then made a cover for the hole with a rolled bead groove around the edge of the cover, put black RTV in the groove and applied the cover with 4 pop rivets.

[Ron Blissit]

I made a tool to straighten the u bolts in place with no damage to the threads. 4 inch piece of 1/2 black pipe 1/2 elbow with a other pipe as a handle 18 to 24 inches long. slide the 4 inch section over the exposed u bolt and use the longer piece to bend the bolt. worked fo me.

[gdmn852]

Hello again, I think the squeak strip , the webbing between the floor riser and frame cross member may have been more common on rumble seat cars, just a guess.