The Ford Barn

Jlpb · 06-11-2024, 02:12 PM

I have a model A doodle bug tractor. It has 1928 A engine. A 4 speed transmission with a pto on passenger side and an extra shift coming out the rear right and below drive shaft. 1. What is the extra shift? 2. The clutch adjustment is all the way tight. And when disconnected the clutch rod arm sets at the 3 o'clock position. No movement. Is clutch plate fingers out of adjustment?

Bob C · 06-11-2024, 03:24 PM

If you are asking about this it looks line the counter shaft coming out of the transmission. Need a picture showing more of the transmission to tell for sure.

The Master Cylinder · 06-11-2024, 04:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bob C

If you are asking about this it looks line the counter shaft coming out of the transmission. Need a picture showing more of the transmission to tell for sure.

Good eye, Bob C.

nkaminar · 06-11-2024, 05:10 PM

Regarding the clutch. The throw out bearing has a spring that could be pulling the clutch lever down. Try moving it with a wrench (pipe wrench?) to see if it gets harder to turn when the clutch is starting to disengage. Also check to see if the fingers that push on the throw out bearing are in the proper location. Sometime they get out of their proper place and that can change how the clutch works. It may also be that the clutch is way out of adjustment. Try extending the rod that pulls on the lever to adjust the clutch. If the clutch was left with no play for a while, the clutch disk could have worn a lot and made things worse. Once the clutch starts to slip it is going to wear a lot.

Jlpb · 06-11-2024, 05:26 PM

That is exactly what I am talking about.i guess that needs to be fixed? And how?

Jlpb · 06-11-2024, 08:55 PM

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Bob C

If you are asking about this it looks line the counter shaft coming out of the transmission. Need a picture showing more of the transmission to tell for sure.

Thanks Bob
That shaft is exactly what I am talking about. What is the fix for that? And do I need to pull the transmission to fix it?

Bob C · 06-11-2024, 09:33 PM

The keeper #7155 in the picture must be missing. I would take the cover off the trans and see what it looks like inside. The
cluster gear has probably dropped down and is not engaged
with the main drive gear #7017.

Jlpb · 06-11-2024, 11:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bob C

The keeper #7155 in the picture must be missing. I would take the cover off the trans and see what it looks like inside. The
cluster gear has probably dropped down and is not engaged
with the main drive gear #7017.

Thanks Bob
Where are you finding this picture? Also do you think this transmission is not a model A?

Bob C · 06-12-2024, 09:35 AM

The trans is from a Model AA but the rear bearing retainer looks
like 1932-39. The parts picture is from Van Pelt's site http://www.vanpeltsales.com/ . The same picture is in the Ford parts books.

nkaminar · 06-12-2024, 11:37 AM

There are two ways to do a clutch job. One is to pull the rear end and then pull the bell housing with the transmission. The second way is to pull the engine. Getting at it from the rear may be better for you if you have to do any work on the transmission, because the transmission will be out of the vehicle.

Small radial heat cracks in the flywheel are OK but no grease or deep circumferential grooves. The pressure plate can be rebuilt and surfaced at a clutch shop or sending it to one of the vendors. Install a new clutch disk, pilot bearing, and throw out bearing. And clean up and inspect all the linkage and shafts. Grease the shafts but do not get any grease on the clutch disk, flywheel, or pressure plate.

Jlpb · 06-12-2024, 05:09 PM

Guys
I can't thank you enough. I am ready to pull the rear and transmission. When I get that far I am sure there will be more questions.
Thanks

Fullraceflathead · 06-13-2024, 07:04 AM

Don't throw any parts away until you are sure you can get the replacement parts replacement parts are very scarce on the double A4 speed.

rotorwrench · 06-13-2024, 09:57 AM

Is the PTO connected to anything? It looks like a small drive shaft is there. The PTO has a control to both engage and disengage it which is usually connected to a floor shift lever or rocker. The 30 & 31 AA trucks had a 4-speed but I don't know about a PTO. More modern trucks used the PTO to drive a hydraulic pump for a dump bed servo set up. It could drive other things as well like a winch.

A lot of doodle bugs would either have a brownie box or a backwards 3-speed to get underdrive gears so it could pull slow like a tractor but still have enough RPM to pull a plow.

The BB trucks could still have the model B engine so that might be the origin of the transmission. A model A will bolt up to a BB set up.

nkaminar · 06-13-2024, 10:06 AM

The Service Bulletins have some good articles on the power takeoff and it's application for dump trucks.

Bob C · 06-13-2024, 10:36 AM

"The BB trucks could still have the model B engine so that might be the origin of the transmission. A model A will bolt up to a BB set up."

That is a AA trans as it has the mount for the clutch and
brake pedals, the BB and later didn't.

Jlpb · 06-14-2024, 10:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fullraceflathead

Don't throw any parts away until you are sure you can get the replacement parts replacement parts are very scarce on the double A4 speed.

That's my problem I don't throw anything away.
Luckly I have extra transmission's.
There were two shafts coming out. And holding plate was there

Jlpb · 06-14-2024, 10:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rotorwrench

Is the PTO connected to anything? It looks like a small drive shaft is there. The PTO has a control to both engage and disengage it which is usually connected to a floor shift lever or rocker. The 30 & 31 AA trucks had a 4-speed but I don't know about a PTO. More modern trucks used the PTO to drive a hydraulic pump for a dump bed servo set up. It could drive other things as well like a winch.

A lot of doodle bugs would either have a brownie box or a backwards 3-speed to get underdrive gears so it could pull slow like a tractor but still have enough RPM to pull a plow.

The BB trucks could still have the model B engine so that might be the origin of the transmission. A model A will bolt up to a BB set up.

The pto is connected to a speed increaser setup. I was told it had a cycle mower attached at one time

Jlpb · 06-14-2024, 10:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nkaminar

The Service Bulletins have some good articles on the power takeoff and it's application for dump trucks.

Where do you guys fine these service bulletin?

Jlpb · 06-14-2024, 11:03 PM

Update
Shafts are back in transmission
Shift tower is now tight.
And I have reset adjustment on the clutch. There is a test drive planned for tomorrow. I will let yous know how it goes.

rotorwrench · 06-15-2024, 09:47 AM

The service bulletins come in book form or DVD as reproductions. A service bulletin dated March 1931 is on page 543 of the book that has details about the "New" PTO system available for the 4-speed transmission. It only has one illustration of the side that has the PTO on it and basic information about the potential uses of the system. The introduction service bulletin for the 4-speed transmission was dated October 1929 and begins on page 384 and continues into page 386. It has no indication of a PTO yet.

06-11-2024, 05:10 PM	#4
nkaminar Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Western North Carolina Posts: 4,122	Re: A A transmission HELP! Regarding the clutch. The throw out bearing has a spring that could be pulling the clutch lever down. Try moving it with a wrench (pipe wrench?) to see if it gets harder to turn when the clutch is starting to disengage. Also check to see if the fingers that push on the throw out bearing are in the proper location. Sometime they get out of their proper place and that can change how the clutch works. It may also be that the clutch is way out of adjustment. Try extending the rod that pulls on the lever to adjust the clutch. If the clutch was left with no play for a while, the clutch disk could have worn a lot and made things worse. Once the clutch starts to slip it is going to wear a lot. __________________ A is for apple, green as the sky. Step on the gas, for tomorrow I die. Forget the brakes, they really don't work. The clutch always sticks, and starts with a jerk. My car grows red hair, and flies through the air. Driving's a blast, a blast from the past. Last edited by nkaminar; 06-11-2024 at 05:18 PM.

06-11-2024, 05:26 PM	#5
Jlpb Junior Member Join Date: Aug 2023 Posts: 28	Re: A A transmission HELP! That is exactly what I am talking about.i guess that needs to be fixed? And how?

06-12-2024, 09:35 AM	#9
Bob C Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: So Cal Posts: 8,831	Re: A A transmission HELP! The trans is from a Model AA but the rear bearing retainer looks like 1932-39. The parts picture is from Van Pelt's site http://www.vanpeltsales.com/ . The same picture is in the Ford parts books.

06-12-2024, 11:37 AM	#10
nkaminar Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Western North Carolina Posts: 4,122	Re: A A transmission HELP! There are two ways to do a clutch job. One is to pull the rear end and then pull the bell housing with the transmission. The second way is to pull the engine. Getting at it from the rear may be better for you if you have to do any work on the transmission, because the transmission will be out of the vehicle. Small radial heat cracks in the flywheel are OK but no grease or deep circumferential grooves. The pressure plate can be rebuilt and surfaced at a clutch shop or sending it to one of the vendors. Install a new clutch disk, pilot bearing, and throw out bearing. And clean up and inspect all the linkage and shafts. Grease the shafts but do not get any grease on the clutch disk, flywheel, or pressure plate. __________________ A is for apple, green as the sky. Step on the gas, for tomorrow I die. Forget the brakes, they really don't work. The clutch always sticks, and starts with a jerk. My car grows red hair, and flies through the air. Driving's a blast, a blast from the past. Last edited by nkaminar; 06-13-2024 at 06:52 AM.

06-12-2024, 05:09 PM	#11
Jlpb Junior Member Join Date: Aug 2023 Posts: 28	Re: A A transmission HELP! Guys I can't thank you enough. I am ready to pull the rear and transmission. When I get that far I am sure there will be more questions. Thanks

06-11-2024, 09:33 PM	#7
Bob C Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: So Cal Posts: 8,831	Re: A A transmission HELP! The keeper #7155 in the picture must be missing. I would take the cover off the trans and see what it looks like inside. The cluster gear has probably dropped down and is not engaged with the main drive gear #7017.

06-13-2024, 07:04 AM	#12
Fullraceflathead Senior Member Join Date: May 2012 Location: Chillicothe, Missouri Posts: 1,214	Re: A A transmission HELP! Don't throw any parts away until you are sure you can get the replacement parts replacement parts are very scarce on the double A4 speed. __________________ "If I asked people what they wanted they would have said faster horses." -Henry Ford "Primitive technology is not a design flaw" 1928 Ford Model A Roadster Pickup 1930 Gordon Smith Air Compressor 1941 Willy's Pickup 1960 Thunderbird-For Sale 1964 Buick Riviera 2x4 425 1965 Pontiac GTO, 455 Super Duty 2004 Dodge Ram SRT-10, V-10 Viper 1977 Charger Jet Boat,460 Ford,Jacuzzi Jet Front Engine Nostalgia Dragster,Supercharged 296 "Fullrace Flathead" Ford Engine Build up on DVD ask

06-13-2024, 09:57 AM	#13
rotorwrench Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: San Antonio, Texas Posts: 16,539	Re: A A transmission HELP! Is the PTO connected to anything? It looks like a small drive shaft is there. The PTO has a control to both engage and disengage it which is usually connected to a floor shift lever or rocker. The 30 & 31 AA trucks had a 4-speed but I don't know about a PTO. More modern trucks used the PTO to drive a hydraulic pump for a dump bed servo set up. It could drive other things as well like a winch. A lot of doodle bugs would either have a brownie box or a backwards 3-speed to get underdrive gears so it could pull slow like a tractor but still have enough RPM to pull a plow. The BB trucks could still have the model B engine so that might be the origin of the transmission. A model A will bolt up to a BB set up. Last edited by rotorwrench; 06-13-2024 at 10:05 AM.

06-13-2024, 10:06 AM	#14
nkaminar Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Western North Carolina Posts: 4,122	Re: A A transmission HELP! The Service Bulletins have some good articles on the power takeoff and it's application for dump trucks. __________________ A is for apple, green as the sky. Step on the gas, for tomorrow I die. Forget the brakes, they really don't work. The clutch always sticks, and starts with a jerk. My car grows red hair, and flies through the air. Driving's a blast, a blast from the past.

06-13-2024, 10:36 AM	#15
Bob C Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: So Cal Posts: 8,831	Re: A A transmission HELP! "The BB trucks could still have the model B engine so that might be the origin of the transmission. A model A will bolt up to a BB set up." That is a AA trans as it has the mount for the clutch and brake pedals, the BB and later didn't.

06-14-2024, 11:03 PM	#19
Jlpb Junior Member Join Date: Aug 2023 Posts: 28	Re: A A transmission HELP! Update Shafts are back in transmission Shift tower is now tight. And I have reset adjustment on the clutch. There is a test drive planned for tomorrow. I will let yous know how it goes.

06-15-2024, 09:47 AM	#20
rotorwrench Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: San Antonio, Texas Posts: 16,539	Re: A A transmission HELP! The service bulletins come in book form or DVD as reproductions. A service bulletin dated March 1931 is on page 543 of the book that has details about the "New" PTO system available for the 4-speed transmission. It only has one illustration of the side that has the PTO on it and basic information about the potential uses of the system. The introduction service bulletin for the 4-speed transmission was dated October 1929 and begins on page 384 and continues into page 386. It has no indication of a PTO yet.