Setting Ignition Points - 59AB

[glennpm]

Hi,


I got lost on the internet yesterday and this morning looking for a DIY precise way of setting ignition points.


First, I found a great video from Mart, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dnNbT8KV9HQ&t=614s


I'm going to make a Bruce Lancaster DIY version and hope to see any pictures out there for a DIY points device following this post on the HAMB from Bruce.


"The actual build, stage one: https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/...3#post-2755137

The C&G adaptor button has a 5/8" shank on the side towards distributor. The hole in the degree wheel is tiny...start with a step drill that fits the existing hole, as maintaining a good degree of concentricity is essential. Keep the step drill perpendicular to the wheel so the cone shaped ramps that feed the work to the next size work properly. Keep turning it by hand as it goes through step after step. If you are that high tech, a drill press can be used to hold bit and wheel, but do the rotating by hand. Keep on going till the 5/8 step drops through. This will be close enough to the ring of writing on the wheel to allow an eyeball check of concentricity...wheel now should be a smooth exact fit on the shank of the adaptor. If you want, you can repeat the drilling with a CD and use the chrome wheel as a backup to make the numbers show better.

Next, two retainers: I first pushed on an o-ring, from a Chinese fleamarket universal kit. This snugs the wheel against the flange in a technically unchallenging manner. Next, I popped on a little wire coil keyring of the sort that garages use to append a tag to the customer's car keys. This closes the ends of the slot so adaptor stays properly centered on distributor tang with no cam or engine to pilot it.
Obviously, each part and process could be done differently by someone with lathe or even drill press, but the aim here is universal buildability.

The mark one dwell wheel is ready now for its test: See that it fits and stays on-center on the upside down distributor.
For easy reading, carefully scribe or "Sharpy" in the dwell arcs described far above in this thread.
Make your pointer...the complete slob can just bend a paperclip and install under condenser bracket screw. Better, make up a bolt to fit the precision hole, the one nearer to the vac brake. Probably a typical 5/16 bolt with a layer of Coke can metal around shoulder to replicate shoulder diameter of the special Ford bolt. Wheel rim overlaps bolt holes, so use bolt that ends right below wheel and make a line on it with chisel or file.


First, get your rotation as seen from rear RIGHT, not always easy...
As seen from front, distributor rotates CCW. Mark the correct direction on the back with the sharpy so you have one thing fewer to screw up.

From the zero, mark off 22.5 degrees in direction of rotation...from the BACK, this is CW.
This arc represents Right Point closed period. Now Back Up 9 degrees, from there mark off another 22.5 forward...this is left point. Check your total...should be 36 degrees of point closedness. When the right point closes, coil starts to charge up...when the left opens, the total circuit is broken and spark fire. Then nothing happens for 9 degrees, then whole thing starts over...got it??

To set up, gap the points; block each in turn by putting a piece of clean paper into the set, measure dwell of each, adjust to your satisfaction. then leave both operational and test overall dwell.
Testing is done by test light, either a commercial continuity tester or a Radio Shack battery box and bulb...one end of circuit clipped to primary terminal, other to case. As the world turns, light will be ON if either or both points are closed, OFF when both are open.
If dwell and gap aren't both pretty close to spec, something is WRONG. If one point has to be significantly off spec to bring combined total to 36 degrees, something else is wrong"


Pictures please!

[FortyNiner]

Did you see the info on the Van Pelt site? That method worked for me.

[glennpm]

Yes, but that is for setting the timing with the two scales. Good post like Van Pelt has on his site. I'm after a reasonable way to get as accurate as I can for the gaps and dwell.


Thanks.\,
Glenn

[glennpm]

Well I got my distributor setup nicely now using my homemade dwell meter.
It started immediately yesterday afternoon, runs great with no pinging. Very happy now with the original distributor. I plan to make a write-up addendum to Bruce's text but for now, here are the bits.




Glenn

[aussie merc]

i built a tool using the VANPELT information works every time .I keep that one in the glovebox just in case

[glennpm]

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My TDC tool is shown of the right side of my picture. Drill size P is a perfect fit into the distributor hole.

[glennpm]

DIY Distributor Dwell Setting Tool

The actual build, stage one (Bruce Lancaster, aka Rumble Seat)
https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/threads/ive-got-a-point.257066/page-3#post-2755137

I’ve made a few edits to Bruce’s instructions and noted them with this highlighting, glennpm

The C&G adaptor button has a 5/8" 7/8”shank on the side towards distributor. The hole in the degree wheel is tiny...start with a step drill that fits the existing hole, as maintaining a good degree of concentricity is essential. Keep the step drill perpendicular to the wheel so the cone shaped ramps that feed the work to the next size work properly. Keep turning it by hand as it goes through step after step. If you are that high tech, a drill press can be used to hold bit and wheel, but do the rotating by hand. Keep on going till the 5/8" 7/8”step drops through.
(I started the hole, after drilling out the protractor to rule rivet but then switched to a variable speed portable drill)
This will be close enough to the ring of writing on the wheel to allow an eyeball check of concentricity...wheel now should be a smooth exact fit on the shank of the adaptor. If you want, you can repeat the drilling with a CD and use the chrome wheel as a backup to make the numbers show better.

Next, two retainers: I first pushed on an o-ring, from a Chinese fleamarket universal kit. This snugs the wheel against the flange in a technically unchallenging manner. Next, I popped on a little wire coil keyring of the sort that garages use to append a tag to the customer's car keys. This closes the ends of the slot so adaptor stays properly centered on distributor tang with no cam or engine to pilot it.
Obviously, each part and process could be done differently by someone with lathe or even drill press, but the aim here is universal buildability.
(I had a few of these rings around but had to expand the ID of one, using a 7/8” drill bit)

The mark one dwell wheel is ready now for its test: See that it fits and stays on-center on the upside-down distributor.
For easy reading, carefully scribe or "Sharpy" in the dwell arcs described far above in this thread.
Make your pointer...the complete slob can just bend a paperclip and install under condenser bracket screw. Better, make up a bolt to fit the precision hole, the one nearer to the vac brake. Probably a typical 5/16 bolt with a layer of Coke can metal around shoulder to replicate shoulder diameter of the special Ford bolt. Wheel rim overlaps bolt holes, so use bolt that ends right below wheel and make a line on it with chisel or file.
(I used a combination of bot, nuts and trimmed fender washer for the pointer)


First, get your rotation as seen from rear RIGHT, not always easy...
As seen from front, distributor rotates CCW. Mark the correct direction on the back with the sharpy so you have one thing fewer to screw up.

From the zero, mark off 22.5 degrees in direction of rotation...from the BACK, this is CW.
This arc represents Right Point closed period. Now Back Up 9 degrees, from there mark off another 22.5 forward...this is left point. Check your total...should be 36 degrees of point closedness. When the right point closes, coil starts to charge up...when the left opens, the total circuit is broken and spark fire. Then nothing happens for 9 degrees, then whole thing starts over...got it??

To set up, gap the points; block each in turn by putting a piece of clean paper into the set, measure dwell of each, adjust to your satisfaction. then leave both operational and test overall dwell.
Testing is done by test light, either a commercial continuity tester or a Radio Shack battery box and bulb...one end of circuit clipped to primary terminal, other to case. As the world turns, light will be ON if either or both points are closed, OFF when both are open.
If dwell and gap aren't both pretty close to spec, something is WRONG. If one point has to be significantly off spec to bring combined total to 36 degrees, something else is wrong. Bruce
I marked the protractor as described but then got confused when using it. The key for me is noting that with either set of points blocked with paper, that the closure and opening dwells are all 22.5°. I rotated the protractor disk only and NOT the distributor adapter. The protractor will slip readily by the O-ring. I rotated the protractor with the cam adapter piece CCW 20-40° or so, then CW, the proper rotation from the back, until my test light just came on. I set this by aligning this “light on” mark of the protractor, to be inline with my fender washer pointer, at the start of ANY line. The light with either set of points will shall then be on for 22.5°.

This photo shows the “light on” mark starting at a 13.5° arc for the left points. The right “light on” starts at 9°. As stated though, just remember that you are looking for good on and off for 22.5°

After both left and right points are set, you must check both, so no paper blocking for this test. The light shall be 9° OFF and then 36° ON, completing the distributor cycle for one cylinder. (9° + 36° = 45°)


Principle of Operation (ref. 1932 to 1936 Engine & chassis Repair Manual with degree changes for 1942 distributor)

The two sets of contact points in the Ford V-8 distributor Operate on an overlap system. The right-hand contacts, looking at the front of the breaker plate, Fig. 24, break the circuit and do the firing. The left-hand contacts close the circuit. When one set of contacts only is allowed to operate, the circuit is open through 22.5 ° and closed through 22.5 °. With both sets of contacts in operation, the circuit remains open for a period of 9° and closed for a period of 36 °. This cycle occurs 8 times per revolution of the cam. The number of degrees through which both sets of contacts remain closed at the same time is termed "the overlap".

Diagram showing Intervals of opening and closing of the contact points for Ford V-8. The opening and intervals for the left set of contacts is represented by the outer circle while that fer the right set of contacts is represented by the inner. circle. The dark portion indicates the intervals the points are closed while the light section indicates the intervals of opening.



glennpm build

I bought a Goniometer Quick Angle Protractor Angle Finder from Amazon. I drilled out the rivet for the rule to protractor, drilled a indexing hole in a piece of scrap wood and screwed it down with a flat head wood screw and then proceeded to marking.



After scribing each mark, I colored the lines with a fine point black sharpie

Next step was to drill the protractor hold carefully out to a 7/8” hole. I started it by hand but with more drag the larger the hole became, I switched to my variable speed electric drill.





I painted the back of the protractor white for visibility, slipped it onto the cam adaptor, restrained it with an O-ring and then an expanded thin key ring holder using a 7/8” bit.




This is my test light using a dash bulb, 9V battery and clips.
Two cat food cans, one notched for the points side and one not for a distributor stand, worked great.




Glenn

[glennpm]

Just reading this and have to do some editing tomorrow

[drolston]

I am an engineer and love all of that stuff, but,
Someone on this forum has the tag "making the simple complicated for 30 years"
That might apply here.

If your distributor cam and bearings are not worn, and you set both points precisely, you will get very close to the correct dwell. It's that easy. Right?
Then set the timing by ear, and go cruising or raciing.