Bad day, found a crack....

[Vanspeed]

Really frustrated so bear with me. This is the second flathead I have bought that was told to be a runner, long time storage, yada yada yada. This one was told to be a "running take out". It is a '37.

When I asked him about it he said it was in a car that he saw run and drive. Taken out to make a street rod. He said all I would have to do is the normal fluid changes, check the points and fire her up.

Today I took the heads off because I wanted to put my 35 heads on it (35 truck) and all looked good until I pulled the driver side head. There is a crack running from a water jacket hole to the cylinder. Never saw one crack there before. It has the typical crack between the water hole and head stud which I usually leave because they have never been a problem for me but I have never had a crack to a cylinder wall. Wouldn't this have been noticeable while running?

I am already in $1000 between the two I bought. I let the seller know but he had not responded back. Doubt he will, he was a HAMB member. Is this block save able? Maybe just a sleeve? Really can't keep throwing money away. I know I should have looked at them with the heads off but they were both a long distance away and I paid a buddy to relay them for me.

What would you guys do here? I have very limited funds.

[Jack E/NJ]

Did you perhaps tidy up the cylinder walls and piston tops? Cuz I don't see any evidence that suggests the crack has caused any issues...yet. Furthermore, I also zoomed in on the crack in your 2nd photo. I'm not sure the crack is continuous between the jacket and the cylinder.

Jack E/NJ

[tubman]

We don't live in a perfect world; unless you're going to build a killer motor, I wouldn't worry about that crack. When I was in high school, I did a "Sear-Roebuck" overhaul on my car (they had the best prices) on an engine that had 7 cracks between the valve pockets and the cylinders. I was young and dumb and just honed the cylinders, put in a set of rings, and went my merry way. I had no trouble in the next few years.

You really shouldn't blame the seller for this; I'm sure he had no problem with it, and the "run and drive" statement is probably correct.

[alanwoodieman]

have seen a similar crack in a 40 block, block pressured checked ok, but it got run overheated and the crack went crazy caused major water in oil . this block would have probably run for ever had it not overheated, run the engine but make sure you never let it get overheated

[flatford39]

You are going to have to take it apart and get it magnufluxed at least to see if you have other cracks. A sleeve isn't going to solve the problem. It doesn't look like the crack goes into the cylinder but it's really hard to say without having it magnafluxed.

I just sent an 8BA off to my machinist and it cost $150.00 to clean an flux. That engine is pretty clean (mine was a filthy mess) so I bet it might even be cheaper.

I suspect for you that you weren't thinking of tearing down completely to have it tested.

These things are a real crap shoot now in trying to find a crack free block. You may go through 4 or 5 before you get a good one.

[Bored&Stroked]

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Well - it kind of depends on whether or not you're in a gambling mood. To me, it looks like the cylinder has had some water in it - as I think I see rust pitting around the exhaust valve area . . . that I don't see on the cylinder next to it. Also, is that pitting in the cylinder - at bottom of the picture, or just dirt/gunk?

If that is the case, then it is already pushing water into the cylinder (which I would expect it to do). Even though the crack doesn't appear to be down into the cylinder - it will probably keep going.

I've never seen a crack in this area - though that section of the deck now has two cracks - one to the stud and one to the cylinder.

Me, I'd check and see if a sleeve can be put in it - I don't see a reason why not (but I'm not an expert on flathead crack repairs). The challenge might be to ensure that the head gasket can seal - and not leak water up at the top. Might need something more like a 'Darton' sleeve - with a flange at the top. (They'll make anything).

Obviously you're not made of money and now you have a problem - so I feel for yah. If you want, I'll take this picture to my machine shop (they do all sorts of amazing work) - and I'll ask the owner . . . will a normal sleeve work, if not, a Darton sleeve, or is it not worth taking a chance on.

Let me know,

Good luck - B&S

[SofaKing]

Check this out: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pq0wfU4ZaKk

The kits are available but not cheap. I had considered trying it myself but scored another engine. Not sure how it would work with crack going into cylinder wall. Maybe in conjunction with a sleeve?

[flatford39]

A sleeve isn't going to solve that problem.You are still going to get coolant in the oil pan.

Keep in mind that the only way to install a sleeve is to go to a bare block.

If you go to a bare block you might as well have it magnufluxed to see if you have more cracks.

[Ronnie]

Bin there done that.A sleeve will fix it.After the sleeve is installed the crack ends at the new sleeve. The cost will be pulling all the studs and boring to fit sleeve and then fitting piston it will be a few bucks for sure. But is doable. I would also pin the crack where it meets the new sleeve(probably not needed). The rest of the crack can be ignored.Another expense if you aren't equipped.Just my 2¢.

R

[funrunr]

Build a test stand with a radiator and run it, it will tell you what it needs. You already know it needs repair, why not see if it will run as is until you can pay to have complete rebuild/repair. The most you will be out is a set of head gaskets. Good luck!

[Jack E/NJ]

Vanspeed>>>He said all I would have to do is the normal fluid changes, check the points and fire her up.>>>
funrunr>>>Build a test stand with a radiator and run it, it will tell you what it needs.>>>

Agreed. I had a very similar situation with my 21-studder. My temporary test stand with a radiator was an early 38 ford from which it had originally been removed about 50 years earlier. Didn't bother buttoning everything up nice and tidy --- just enough to drive it around a few weeks to see how it went. The engine still smoked and leaked oil bad --- well maybe even worse than I remembered it back then. But it seemed to run OK. So I removed the tired engine again. Rebuilt it. Then put it back in the same test stand and drove it around again for a few weeks. Satisfied with the rebuild, I buttoned everything up nice and tidy --- at least by my standards 8^). That was 5 years ago.

Jack E/NJ

[Vanspeed]

Thanks for all the replies, I appreciate it. As far as pitting, what you see is built up carbon. It scrapes off with a knife. I don't see any evidence that the cylinder has seen water, the oil is not watery or full of coolant. It also does not appear to me to go below the deck thickness.

I am going to call a local machine shop and see what they say. You guys might be right, it could have been running fine and that is why the guy I bought it from had no idea.

Is there anything special about sleeving a flathead? The machine shop near me works on my buddies T engines and he likes their service/quality. Anything I should ask them or listen for when I go in there after work?

[Seth Swoboda]

Have it welded. The machine shop I use will usually weld that for $100. There is nothing inexpensive about rebuilding a flathead, I know. It will require additional machining. Look at it this way, you spend a few bucks on the engine so instead you and the wife don't eat out as much and you stay home to recoup the cost. Plus with all the time spent at home you can work in the garage a little more. It just requires some budget modifications. Life will always throw you unexpected problems, things like these always work out. Don't get too worked up if you have your health. We're lucky to be able to work on these engines.

[Mike51Merc]

Looks like a candidate for a drill and pin repair.
Iron-tite
Lock-N-stitch

Plus, you should send it out for a thorough cat hair removal.

[Vanspeed]

I was told not to weld it, that the crack would just start again? I have heard of lock and stitch, that might be an option.

[Chris]

A sleeve will fix that. You bore the block out enough to fit the sleeve, so the crack will stop at the sleeve. You cut the top of the sleeve off flush with the block, so your gasket will seal it there. Buying/installing a sleeve is probably 50-100.00 depending on your shop, bore it to your piston size (35-50.00 around here) and you are good to go.

Worse part of the job is pulling all those studs. But if you break one or two, the machine shop sleeving it can fix that as well. I bet between 100-200.00 will fix it.

And yes, you do need to tear it down to a bare block, so you will need a full gasket set as well. On a budget, I'd repair it and run it. You can always remove it down the road and rebuild it if/when you have the funds.

[Chris]

Originally Posted by Vanspeed

I was told not to weld it, that the crack would just start again? I have heard of lock and stitch, that might be an option.

That will work however it will still need a sleeve beings it goes into the cylinder. Can't pin a cylinder. But honestly I would just sleeve it and carry on.

[flatheadmurre]

Pressure test it !
If it tests good stick the heads back on and drive it, i have pulled plenty of "good running" motors apart that looked a lot worse.
Dont start cleaning brushing scraping if youre gonna run it as is, carbon deposits are youre friend in this case.
If youre going for a sleeve get a thin(cast iron) flanged one.
That way you take away less strenght from the block at the same time you get a big sealing area for the head gasket.
Seller was probably honest about it being a running motor and it might be so for a long time if its not overheated or stressed bad.
You dont have to take the studs out.
Either you set it up in a boring machine clamping it down or use a boring plate.

[Tim Ayers]

I agree with a lot of the opinions here: sleeve it.

[Vanspeed]

Yeah Chris I was hoping to get this back on the road for around 150-200. I am stopping by my machine shop after work. I will let you know what their opinion is. One thing about tearing it down that would benefit me is getting all the crud cleaned out of the block.