Model B oil pan tray

[Walt Dupont--Me.]

Question and answer period. I'm building model B engine that I picked up in pieces. I didn't get the rod dipper tray that goes in the oil pan with all my stuff. My question is, is the model A tray the same as the B tray. I have some stripped A engines in my storage barn and I got a good tray today. It looks like and fit in the B pan. I think it's it same thing. What do you guys Think? Thanks Walt

[Bob C]

The parts book says they are the same 28-34.

Bob

[zzlegend]

Walt, I cant say for sure but I hope this gets bumped to the top and I am sure others will chime in. Jim Brierley would know for sure. You might send him a P.M. Mark.

Oops, I see Bob beat me to it as I was typing.

[hardtimes]

Originally Posted by Walt Dupont--Me.

Question and answer period. I'm building model B engine that I picked up in pieces. I didn't get the rod dipper tray that goes in the oil pan with all my stuff. My question is, is the model A tray the same as the B tray. I have some stripped A engines in my storage barn and I got a good tray today. It looks like and fit in the B pan. I think it's it same thing. What do you guys Think? Thanks Walt

Hey Walt,
Good to hear that your still building !
And, good question to which the answer is yes ! At least from my RECENT experience. I have a B pan that was beat /worked to death by someone, to the point that we could not straighten and use it. I got the idea that an A pan could be use on a B engine....with some modifications. Well, it turned out to be true. Not only did I use the A pan on my B, but I also put my B dipper tray into the finished A pan for use.

As I had done sone 'full pressure' mods on the dipper tray, I was determined to try and use it in the A pan....voila, it works beautifully.
I took some pics and was going to do a ..how to mod an A pan to a B block, but got to thinking that some may not appreciate that, eh. Anyway, I had three like new A pans and one destroyed B pan...what's a guy to do.


Hm, you BOTH type faster than me with my one broke finger...

[James Rogers]

The major difference in the A tray and the B tray is the late 31 change. In late 31 the tray was changed to accommodate the new shield on the oil pump. This change dropped the tray in the pan by 1/8" and was continued on to end of production. If you use the shield it is suggested to use the appropriate tray but if the shield is omitted, use the early pan. Also, there were changes to the tray that were made to stop oil dripping from the filler tube which, was a problem that plagued the A and B motor even till today. These changes to the tray include the shield and different holes added to allow the oil to drain back to the pan faster. I have posted pics of these tray differences before and will again if needed. There were 4 different oil fill tubes during production of the A and B motors, none cured the problem.

[Bob Bidonde]

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Ditto Jimmy Rogers, he hit the nail on the head. The late 1931 Model A dipper tray and the oil pump shield were also the Model B production parts.

[Walt Dupont--Me.]

Thanks guys for all that info, I was going to ask about the oil pump shield, I don't have one with this engine and was wondering if it was nesserassy . I've got a B engine in my barn I've had for about 10yr's. I'm going up and remove the pan on this old engine this morning and see what's inside. I'll probably use the pump shield and pan tray. I'm getting pretty old to keep thro these engine around but I cain't stop. I got the bug when I was 12-13 and never go over it. Walt

[Jim Brierley]

There was an excellent article in the last Restorer Magazine on dipper trays. The tray was lowered when the pump shield was added, evidenced by raised dimples in the tray. Later pans have a shorter lip at the front and some have 4 large holes in the top flat area. Bottom line is they all interchange unless the pump shield is used.

[Jim Brierley]

I just had a call from a friend that builds A/B engines. He is putting a B engine together and found the B rods hit his A tray. I'm assuming he has an early tray? He does not have a computer so has not been following this thread.

[hardtimes]

Originally Posted by Jim Brierley

I just had a call from a friend that builds A/B engines. He is putting a B engine together and found the B rods hit his A tray. I'm assuming he has an early tray? He does not have a computer so has not been following this thread.

Hey Jim,
FWIW, I just used your book as motivation to replace my mutilated B pan , with a good A pan. I had modified the B dipper tray with information that you gave, to help keep more oil in the area of the oil pump. So, I wanted to keep the B dipper tray, if possible. Not knowing if it would fit, I tried it and it fit great. No rods hitting this B tray in A oil pan. I also used your input about using the SMALLER nuts on the B rods.

HOWEVER, when checking everything at each junction of installation, as you suggested, I found that even with small rod nuts...they hit sides of the A pan.
Solution: Get a real smart Fordbarn Buddy , who will help with a 'fix' !
ZZ made 'jig' to help DIMPLE the A pan and to keep things in place , otherwise. We also had to make a template of the rear of the B pan and transfer that to rear of A pan. Came out beautiful, and I thank YOU for impetus and ZZ for skills that made it happen. Pics to follow, may help others who are in same situation, eh

Note: This is full pressure B.
Two man job, for sure. One to apply heat and other to operate/maintain jig. Oh, and Mrs. to provide encouragement, sandwiches and hydration !

[Jim Brierley]

Very nice hardtimes! I'm running an A pan on an A block with C crank and rods, and clearance is fine. Maybe you need a few more sandwiches ?

[Walt Dupont--Me.]

Originally Posted by Walt Dupont--Me.

Thanks guys for all that info, I was going to ask about the oil pump shield, I don't have one with this engine and was wondering if it was nesserassy . I've got a B engine in my barn I've had for about 10yr's. I'm going up and remove the pan on this old engine this morning and see what's inside. I'll probably use the pump shield and pan tray. I'm getting pretty old to keep thro these engine around but I cain't stop. I got the bug when I was 12-13 and never go over it. Walt

I dug out the B parts engine in my storage barn removed the pan, It had the oil pump shield, removed the tray, The engine was an early B with the crank with no counter weights, the serial no. stamped on the upper part of the bell housing April 1932, I cleaned the tray and it snapped right in B pan I am using, I installed the pump shield, installed the oil pan, nothing hitting pan or the tray by turning the engine over. I don't know the year of the engine I'm building, no number stamped on the pad on the block and didn't have the upper bell with the no. The crank on the engine has the pressed on counter weights so I believe it a 32 engine sent back the factory for a factory rebuild after 1935 and the factory pressed on the these counter weights. I removed those weights and had the crank ground .020 rods and installed the weights and had the crank balanced. I understand Henry started his rebuilding plant in 1935. I have heard these cranks are smoother than the 33-34 with the cast counter weights. I have one of them in my 31 Coupe, I had that engine all balanced when I built it 10yr's ago. I drive the 31 coupe hard, B trans with 41-48 gears, and 3:54 rear gears. It cruise easy 55 -60, 55mph 2300rpm. I've put a lot of miles on in the last 10years. Walt

[hardtimes]

Hey Walt,
Great job, and thanks for sharing that information/process !
If NO number stamped on pad, I'm wondering if that may be a 'diamond' block, i.e.- after market block. Are you familiar with where to look for the telltale diamond ?

[colin1928]

There should not be a number stamped on the block pad of any B block they were stamp on the flywheel housing

[hardtimes]

Originally Posted by colin1928

There should not be a number stamped on the block pad of any B block they were stamp on the flywheel housing

Hey colin,
Hm, I'm working a B short block now that has a number stamped on the 'pad'. I haven't thought to check the number out, but maybe will now with your statement !