Victoria Door Alignment

[CA Victoria]

The drivers door has about 1/4" sag. Its hard to see in the picture, but the front-top left corner is a tight gap and the front-lower corner opens up a bit. The back margin is perfect. I am stumped how to correct this problem, I have checked door pilar alignment, hinge play, hinge tightness, and the rivet side of the hinge is solid, no door cracks etc. The B pilar alignment is tight.........zero body damage, and all that I can see checks out. It does not apear that there is any margin for shiming as in later model fords. The RH door fits perfectly.

Comparing the RH to the LH side the only difference I can detect is a slight difference in the angle of the lower hinge. If the hinge was bent back toward the rear of the door the sag would be corrected and the belt lines would be aligned but the door hinge margin would be off.

If bending the hinge is the prefered method of alignment is it done cold or with heat? Is there a tool to do this so the A pillar is not altered?

[flatford39]

You need shims under the cowl to raise it.

[CA Victoria]

I'll preface this question by saying that I have only done a slight shim adjustment to my roadster to align the doors, so I'm not an expert and need further explanitation.
I removed the body from the frame for the first time, the frame was as straight as an arrow. There was an equal shim under both #1 body bolts.

If I sight across the windshield post both are parallel which is as I think they should be for the windshield to seat properly. It is only the one door that is sagging, so if i shim the one side by lowering the #1 shim and adding to the #2 it would kick the cowl up and align the rear of the door. This movement would tip the LH pillar forward puting a twist in the body since the RH side door is OK and would not get any shims. The sub rail is oak of course, does it move as ealily as a metal sub rail?
I'm trying to understand what is causing the sag before I apply a solution..................What am I missing?

[Logan]

Your body gap isnt that far off, it needs very little shimming.
The best way i can explain how to shim the body is this:
-Every car is different
-Make sure everybody bolt is in the body. I tighten down every bolt, then loosen them as needed to be able to lift the body up to place the shims under.
-Every shim you place under the body will have an effect somewhere else on the body.
-I start with the lowest door, and go from there. By placing some shims under the cowl you will raise the cowl, and the door.
-Once you get the lowest door close, make sure you get the body bolts tight, and check the other door; It may have changed a little bit. Shim that side accordingly. all you are doing is raising or lowering the body where needed. It can take some time, and frustration but the end result will be nice.
Its mostly just trial and error to learn how to do it.

[DaveB]

I recently removed the Victoria body from the frame of my car and I believe that is the first time it has been removed since 1931. I was suprised to see that there are virtually no mounting body blocks under the body. Only the long piece of wood front to back and it only had about 1/8" pads at each body bolt. It would be pretty easy for you to put a shim where needed. My driver door was also saged about the same as yours but I am not ready to put the body back on the straightened frame.

I hope you let us know what you did to correct the sag.

[1931 flamingo]

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Why not try shimming it? Nothing to lose. Let us know if it works, if it doesn't let us know and maybe we'll come back with a different method..................
Paul in CT

[Kevin in NJ]

I recently did my slant window cabriolet and it has the same type of wood sills and they move with the shims. When you crank the bolts down stuff moves.

A little aside.

The metal dovetails need to be restored and are very functional as they would bring this door into alignment. The repro parts from A&L are what you need. Just be sure you have the new springs. The original batches my have springs that are TOO stiff. The little pot metal sliders must move easily the full length with moderate pressure from one finger. Some springs require significant pressure and will harm the male dovetail.

The wrong springs are noticeably different from the originals. The wire is thicker and it is much much stiffer. If you bought parts a while ago (years?) then you would want to contact A&L to ask about the springs.

[CA Victoria]

I found a bag of body shims and begin experimenting. While the body is not ready to set onto the chassis I found that 3/16 shim under the #3 body bolt corrected the door sag.
To solve my curosity the movement, or wear point is the attachment joint where the oak subrail inserts into the metal subrail supporting the cowl. Since this joint is not supported on both sides, I can see where there would be movement as the frame and body flexed and twisted on those old roads. My father-in-law has told me a few stoies where he drove this car, and I'm supprised it has survived!