Carb and Heater Identification ???s

[slow8]

Hey All,

I recently picked up a 31 Tudor.

I am trying to get it started and notice fuel leaking from the carb (valve is off).

It would probably be best to go through the carb and I believe it is a Marvel. There seems to be a lot of extra plumbing on mine though. I believe it is for a gas heater mounted under the dash.

Any help identifying what I have would be appreciated.

Carb Pics






I am new to all of this, but isn't that a lot of extra plumbing going up to the firewall and the intake? There is also the little cylinder bolted to the front corner of the carb.



Is this a heater?

[Herb Concord Ca]

That definitely is a Marvel carb. The other stuff, I don't have a clue.

[David in San Antonio]

The downward-facing fan suggests it is a heater. I have no idea how the gasoline is turned into heat, though. There is also what appears to be a switch, perhaps activated by a bi-metallic strip. I used to use a flameless “hand warmer” that ran for hours on lighter fluid, so maybe it’s like that. I think it was called a Jon-E-Warmer. I’m guessing the car use is much more dangerous, between the risk of fire under the dashboard below the fuel line and tank, and the carbon-monoxide buildup.
If it were mine I’d either disconnect the fuel feed and leave it in place as a curiosity, or remove it and show it as a curiosity.
If you’re really cold, there are electrically heated socks etc meant for hunters.

[Bob C]

That's a South Wind heater.

[rotorwrench]

The South Wind heater was the prominent gasoline heater in the late 30s & earlier 40s. They were reliable if kept in good condition. That one is not a South Wind that I recognize. I'd recommend removal until you can find good information on what ever that is. It could be dangerous if it doesn't remove the carbon monoxide or leaks fuel. South Winds have a vacuum line to the manifold and are generally fully inclosed units.

[Benson]

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[rfitzpatrick]

Rotorwrench. I'd have no problem flying on any airplane you worked/serviced, and I spent 39 years AirLine Mechanic: National Airlines, PanAm, Northwest Orient and finally American. You knowledge is impressive!

[slow8]

Thanks for the info all. I plan on removing it.

How do I know what to keep and what to throw out? Does anyone have a good picture of a stock setup with a Marvel carb?

[Benson]

Photo

[ModelA29]

I'd go back to a Zenith. They are plentiful, cheap and have parts easily available. Hit up some of your local club members. Just about everyone has a spare or two. I'd also replace all the fuel lines at the same time.

It does appear the line above the exhaust manifold going through the firewall is the vacuum line Rotorwrench spoke of. The electric socks idea seems like a better option. Your passengers will appreciate your getting rid of that shin buster.

Gas heaters were still a viable option into the late 60s on air cooled VWs and Porsches in the really cold climates.

[Y-Blockhead]

Originally Posted by slow8

Thanks for the info all. I plan on removing it.

How do I know what to keep and what to throw out? Does anyone have a good picture of a stock setup with a Marvel carb?

Here is a picture of my Marvel without all the "extras". The Marvel out performs the Zenith IMO. Check Renner's Corner for rebuild parts and information (scroll thru the "Slide and Info" section. http://www.rennerscorner.com/index.html

[slow8]

Originally Posted by Y-Blockhead

Here is a picture of my Marvel without all the "extras". The Marvel out performs the Zenith IMO. Check Renner's Corner for rebuild parts and information (scroll thru the "Slide and Info" section. http://www.rennerscorner.com/index.html

That picture is perfect. Thanks Y-Blockhead.

I ordered a rebuild kit from Renners yesterday. I am glad it was the right one.

[nkaminar]

All that extra stuff is interesting and historically valuable, but as others have said, could be dangerous. Carefully remove all the extra stuff and put it in storage until you can research it. Then, as you say, "go through the carburetor." It appears that you have a vacuum windshield wiper motor. If that is leaking it will effect the engine performance. You may want to block off the vacuum port on the intake manifold until you can sort out the vacuum system. The simplest thing to do is to put a known good carburetor on the engine for the time being.

[JayJay]

Originally Posted by slow8

That picture is perfect. Thanks Y-Blockhead.

I ordered a rebuild kit from Renners yesterday. I am glad it was the right one.

Looks to me like there is a bunch of angles, adapters and crap installed at the manifold vacuum fitting. Slow8, the only metal line you should have coming from the intake manifold is the line that runs to the upper right firewall, that's vacuum for the windshield wiper. If I recall correctly, it's a 1/8 NPT into the manifold. Once you get that vacuum line from the heater removed, you may need to replace the entire windshield wiper line and fittings, here's the proper part.

[Y-Blockhead]

You may have to plug the hole where I assume they drilled a hole for this small tube.

[rotorwrench]

Looking at the break down of a normal South Wind heater, it looks like that one is just the internals of an SW unit. I don't know if they made them that way in there earlier designs but all the later ones have the heat exchanger inside of a metal shroud housing so folks wouldn't be exposed to the extreme heat. Now that there are more photos, a person can see the two intake manifold connections. One connection was to draw fuel into the chamber and the other was to draw combustion gasses out and back to the manifold. I don't know why it would have been taken apart like that but it may have been to get it to fit.

I don't know if many remember what happened to Ricky Nelson's DC-3 aircraft but it was suspected that a fire got started in the location of the gasoline fired combustion heater that was mounted near the wing root on one side of the fuselage. It likely had a fuel leak that caught fire while in the air. The passengers and Ricky all died in or just prior to the forced landing and crash. The pilots were the only survivors and most of that was due to the on board fire. The Southwind it had was a larger unit but still functioned on the same principles as those old automobile heaters.

Having one of those right under the fuel tank just doesn't seem like a good idea in my way of thinking. I sure wouldn't recommend it.

[slow8]

I was able to remove the heater and the associated plumbing.

There are some nasty holes left in the firewall that I will have to weld up.

I added a plug to the intake manifold to fill the vacuum port.





I will use some JB Weld or something similar to fill the hole left in the top of the carb that Y-Blockhead pointed out.

[Bruce of MN]

One fellow just put black duct tape over similar holes in the firewall.

[rotorwrench]

Don't feel alone about fire wall holes. My 29 had two little holes and one big hole gouged out for an exhaust manifold type heat exchanger port and man it was rough. At least yours are small. The small ones are easier to fit and weld up patches. One of yours will need a bend in one of the patches but at least it's not very big.

[Y-Blockhead]

Originally Posted by slow8

I was able to remove the heater and the associated plumbing.

Looking much better.