old engine rebuilders

[Sport King Eric]

I Have what i believe to be an old rebuilt engine it has no identification numbers stamped on the part number pad, and the block is Blue (or repainted Blue a long time ago) The only other Blue block I have seen was used in a boat, Does anybody have any info on the different engine rebuilders? I think it would be cool to find out who did the work..

[alexiskai]

Virtually every Model A engine still out there has been rebuilt, usually multiple times. There used to be hundreds, maybe thousands of shops that rebuilt them, often as part of their normal auto services. The engine in my coupe was rebuilt 40 years ago by a general purpose auto shop near Charlotte that no longer exists. A list like you’re imagining would be cool but isn’t feasible.

Some rebuilders “signed” their work but for many others it was just another work order. On one of my engines, the only clue to the rebuilder’s identity is that his name is cast into the welded counterweights on the crank.

[Joe K]

My "Avatar" (29 CC Pickup) came with 143K miles on the odometer.

The engine was painted "red." No number in the number pad.

My thought is this was an "Allstate" rebuild engine - which could be bought through Sears-Roebuck or "Western Auto" up until the early 1960s.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allstate

The mileage was consistent with the "life of a Model A Engine." My engine rebuilder (now retired) thought 75K miles was a good "typical" life for the non-air filtered, non oil filtered Model A original setup. So 143K would indicate a second engine at the end of it's life.

Which was the case with the red engine. Egg shaped journals, no shims, "filing the caps" to extend engine life (done by yours truly.) And an ultimate set-aside after losing a connecting rod cap nut due to "vibration." (accident waiting to happen effect.)

I'm now thinking to have the red engine rebuilt. I will probably set aside the crank as I have a couple of others.

I'm also thinking about leaving the engine "un-numbered" and not trying to match the frame number. I have my title already (requires "direct inspection" in NH).

Also leaving the engine red.

No doubt I will be "questioned." And my reply will be a "thank you" for asking the history of this particular car. And I'll have my chance to "amaze" the observers with the state of the Allstate Marketplace in 1960.

It will certainly bar me from formal judging - but who can afford to play the formal game except for the most dedicated? The level of competition is now so high that "ordinary users" don't have a chance.

But that is not to exclude a restoration "well done and to the best of one's ability." Its nice to see a "well executed survivor" no matter how exactly it is packaged.

The object is to "have fun." And a red engine can be "fun."

At least one other engine in my stable will be "ford green" - of course.

Joe K

[Fullraceflathead]

I agree and if you change your mind at a later date it's really easy to change the color of the paint!!!

[Keith True]

The Manchester N.H. Sears used two shops in the 50's and 60's,One painted the engines kind of a sick green,kind of a cross between lime and John Deere green.The other shop painted them kind of a gold with a silver tint,or silver with a gold tint.Both shops had good names,but the owners died off.I had a J.C.Whitney rebuild that ran surprisingly well.I pulled the head to change a head gasket,(it rotted with age,it didn't blow)and found no two pistons with the same deck heighth.Also found two different oversize pistons in it.Couple of the valves lifted at a different heighth than the others.I put it back together and ran it for a couple more years.Told the guy that bought the car all about what I found,he ran it until he moved away a few years later.

[Jim Brierley]

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Engines with no stamped number are often diamond blocks, built after normal production and used as replacement or commercial use. Diamond blocks were made both in A and B versions, and except for hard exhaust seats, were no better or worse than original production engines.

[ModelA29]

Originally Posted by Joe K

.....Its nice to see a "well executed survivor" no matter how exactly it is packaged......The object is to "have fun..."

Amen - We've always called them Day 2 cars. Today it's become boring going to a show and seeing a line of Shelbys or Vettes where the only difference are the date codes on the glass or sheetmetal. Cars restored to factory new specs seem to lose their soul when all the stories of it's life are erased during the restoration.

My car has an AER Touring engine that is stock green. I like the sleeper look. Now I'm building a B with a Brierley head and cam and all the little tricks I can garner from his book. It will be hard to hide an aluminum head so I'm thinking black as that is what Ford was using on their HiPo engines in 65 when I started to pay attention to making cars to run faster. I'm still debating if I stamp the number pad - they were left blank on the B engines when they moved the serial number to the flywheel housing.

[Keith True]

I know what you mean about cookie cutter cars.I went to a show in Vermont about 20 years ago,and looked at a line of 1930 DeLuxe Roadsters.Washington blue.Tacoma cream or straw wheels.Firestone WW tires.Tan LB tops.Brown LB interiors.Step plates.Luggage racks.The only difference was some had trunks and some didn't It reminded me of the front row of an old VW dealership.I saw nine in that lineup,and was told there six more just like them scattered around the field.I also saw four of them that really didn't exist when new.They had oval speedos.The DeLuxe's were not equipped with oval speedometers.

[Mike1291]

Originally Posted by Keith True

...Washington blue.Tacoma cream or straw wheels.Firestone WW tires.Tan LB tops.Brown LB interiors.Step plates...

I, as the owner of a blue and straw coupe with brown LB interior and step plates, fit neatly into your group. I got BF Goodrich's for mine though

[Keith True]

It is a pretty combination.Very striking to see nine of them lined up in a row.There used to be three of them that would show up at an annual show 7 miles from me,they didn't know each other but made it a point to herd up at that show.Around me the go-to colors for a roadster seem to be stone brown,with dark green reveals.I know of,(or used to know of) four of those.The old owners are dying off.About ten years ago I was at a show with a coupe,when I walked back to it I thought I was seeing double.A guy came in with a twin to my car and asked if he could get it parked next to mine somehow.My friend was parked next to me,and he traded his spot so the guy could park there.Thorne brown,black reveals,red striping,orange wheels,open rumble lid,no cowl lights or sidemounts.

[jb-ob]

On top of the 'cool list' are the few Ford 'Reman' engines with a data plate listing the crank & rod specs. Some plates are from Ford or another 'reman' distributor. Plates usually riveted to the block just above the dip stick.

[Flathead]

That blue, straw, and brown color scheme seems to be standard for 30 and 31 roadsters. I see them everywhere.

[JayJay]

Originally Posted by jb-ob

On top of the 'cool list' are the few Ford 'Reman' engines with a data plate listing the crank & rod specs. Some plates are from Ford or another 'reman' distributor. Plates usually riveted to the block just above the dip stick.

I had a "reman" engine in my '30. The specs (BxxxMxxxRxxx for bore, main and rod, in thousandths) were stamped on the side of the block on the machined surface that the manifolds bolt to. Very professionally done. I suspect it was NOT a Ford reman as the old serial number had been incompletely ground off and the new number very poorly restamped without the *s.

[Joe K]

Sears Roebuck Fall-Winter 1960

https://christmas.musetechnical.com/...r-Catalog/0923

Sears Allstate Rebuilt Engine
Model A & AA 1928-31
F28H4895N
$154.95 Full Price
$25.00 Trade in Credit
230 lbs.

Joe K

[gdmn852]

Hello, Years ago the was an engine rebuilder , W.E.Smith and son , that were authorized by Ford for engine rebuilding. I don’t recall what they painted engines, were small tags affixed to engines, saying rebuilder name and sizes of overbore and crankshaft journals. Also on my current Roadster, just decided to paint black with apple green wheels and stripes.

[Joe K]

Similar to my earlier post of the price of Sears/Allstate engines.

The 1963 Sears Fall-Winter Catalog offered an ENTIRE PAGE of Model A related goodies.
Like a 79 cent radiator cap. Plastic seat covers. Probably a Hutchins horn.

It was a source of parts for the Model As that were still in use.

"Sears Patterns Parts & Accessories for Model "A" Fords after factory specifications duplicate originals exactly."

https://christmas.musetechnical.com/...r-Catalog/0921

My mind goes back to the 8 year old me who discovered this at Grandma's house.

Joe K