New 1931 owner and new to working on cars

[dmrzoom]

Hello,
I hope you all don't mind my lazy attempt to consolidate an information-collecting expedition that I'm on with our newly inherited 1931 Model A coupe. I know very little of its history except that it has an award badge on the front grille and my father in law bought it from a guy who restored it.

I cannot get it to start and suspect there is a short somewhere. I'm about ready to embark on tracing it. The starter turns but the engine doesn't. One headlight illumninates and one doesn't. The horn won't sound and the interior dome light and fog lights (I may be using the wrong term, but I am actively caffeinating at the moment) don't light.

First question: The car came with an 8v battery. I have found references to 12v upgrades but nothing about 8v. Could anyone please explain the benefits and risks to me? I replaced with a new (and expensive) 8v battery to get it going (which hasn't happened yet) but am unsure what to think long-term.

Second question: I'll probably need to replace wiring and am curious if there is replica wiring or covers out there? I'm also wondering if specific cloth wire colors were used in 31 A's...please let me know if you know and where might be a good source for this type of information.

Third question: I have very basic knowledge of electricity but am not a complete dummy. However...I know enough to be dangerous and that I could be dangerous (relatively speaking). Is there a method of troubleshooting that I should follow so I don't make a career out of it? I often know what needs to be done, but where to start eludes me.

Fourth question: who are good suppliers for parts and stuff (distributor cap - assembly comes to mind)

Please be kind. I'm new. If I am trashing rules but consolidating all these questions, then I beg you for forgiveness. If it seems that I'm green, whelp I am guilty. I don't mind doing research but have spent a few weeks on and off and really need a "this is where you need to begin" type of direction. I'm already a hard critic of myself...

Hoping this can be a great learning experience for my kids, wife and me! Thanks in advance for your assistance and direction.

Dave
Connecticut

[J Franklin]

Your first job should be purchasing an owners manual and shop manual from one of the suppliers. you say the starter turns but not the engine. If so the bendix drive is defective. the wiring is all color coded and good connections (all) are most important.

[Fullraceflathead]

You might try posting your location in your profile. Your best bet I think would be to join a local model a club that may be in your immediate area.

[Brentwood Bob]

1. Find a local club.
2. Ask for advice at the next meeting.
3. A rule of thumb to follow: read the owners manual first, it will instruct you on how to operate the car.
4. Don't buy any stuff until you are adopted by someone, and don't start doing stuff until they are consulted, and understood.

[JayJay]

Dave, in addition to the above, I'll take a stab at your questions. However, I'll repeat that you should not go parts-cannon on this. The Model A is a very simple, reliable car and responds well to methodical approach to problems.

1. The 8V battery, positive ground is an alternative some used for a 6V system. The car should run just fine on a 6V battery, which was what was original. Some put in an 8V battery to give a boost to the cranking, but as you have found, 8V batteries are quite a bit more expensive than 6V.

2. Yes, replacement wiring harness are available, properly colored and properly sized. See question #4 below.

3. Yes, there are systematic means of tracking electrical issues, and it comes out of knowing how the electrical system works. One of your first purchases should be the "Red Book" by Les Andrews Model A Ford Mechanics Handbook, and you might also consider Model A Ford Troubleshooting and Diagnostics, also by Les Andrews. These are available from the suppliers.

4. There are many wonderful suppliers for this hobby. In no order at all, these include

Bert's Model A Center (Colorado)
Snyders Antique Auto Parts (Ohio)
Bratton's Antique Auto Parts (Maryland)
Arizona Model A (Arizona)
Mike's A-Ford-able (Georgia)

And - on this forum there are no silly questions other than the ones not asked.

Have fun with your new car.

[JayJay]

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

Originally Posted by dmrzoom

I cannot get it to start and suspect there is a short somewhere. I'm about ready to embark on tracing it. The starter turns but the engine doesn't. One headlight illumninates and one doesn't. The horn won't sound and the interior dome light and fog lights (I may be using the wrong term, but I am actively caffeinating at the moment) don't light.

This is a confusing statement. The engine doesn't turn or the engine doesn't fire? If the former, you should determine if the engine is free by turning the crankshaft with the car in neutral. If it's free and the engine still doesn't turn when you run the starter then you may have an issue with the Bendix drive on the starter motor. It's not uncommon to have the bolt holding the Bendix drive to the starter motor shaft shear.

Again, a systematic troubleshooting should help find things to explore. Better yet is someone by your side who has worked on Model As. Check the Model A Club of America website for a local chapter.

[Nasukau]

Welcome to the Barn!
Sounds like you may possibly have a broken bendix spring on the starter. (easy fix if that is the problem)
I am no electrical genius either. But I learned many things by getting Les Andrews Mechanics book. Not to mention the videos on YouTube. And reading many many threads on this forum. You can pick up new color coded wiring harnesses from the parts suppliers if you determine that is what you need.
There are quite a few Model A parts suppliers and many opinions on who is the best (Berts, Mac's, Snyders just to name a few)
Best of Luck and hopefully someone will chime in on the 8v battery. I have only seen the 6v and 12v. Best thing for the battery is to make sure you have good ground and a large enough battery cable. I know the 6v battery cables are thicker than 12v and you can tell the difference in cranking when you have the correct size (I use 2/0 AWG).
Also add your location. you may have a neighbor on here that can help you out. The Model A community is awesome!

Denny

[nkaminar]

https://www.snydersantiqueauto.com/p...0031&cat=41621
https://www.snydersantiqueauto.com/p...0032&cat=41621
https://modela.org/default.html
https://www.fordgarage.com/pages/awiringdiagram.htm

[California Travieso]

I’m surprised you’re having those problems. The first thing you should do when buying a car is make sure it starts and all the lights, horn, brakes, Brake lights, etc. are working. If not it would help in negotiating the price and fixing them.

Now that you have give the cash, can you call him? Since he has your money he should help withe issues.

David Serrano

[Y-Blockhead]

Originally Posted by California Travieso

I’m surprised you’re having those problems. The first thing you should do when buying a car is make sure it starts and all the lights, horn, brakes, Brake lights, etc. are working. If not it would help in negotiating the price and fixing them.

Now that you have give the cash, can you call him? Since he has your money he should help withe issues.

David Serrano

David, He inherited the car from his father-in-law. The man who owned it is no longer around to negotiate with or call!!

[Chuck Dempsey]

Welcome to the 'Barn! A wealth of knowledge just a click away.....

[California Travieso]

Originally Posted by Y-Blockhead

David, He inherited the car from his father-in-law. The man who owned it is no longer around to negotiate with or call!!

Sorry about that. In trying to read the long post on my small iPhone screen I over looked that part.

David Serrano

[dmrzoom]

Thanks! Stamford, Connecticut.

[dmrzoom]

Yes, my father-in-law is, unfortunately, looking up at roots. There was no knowledge transfer. I also have his 40 coupe in my garage. Same story. That one will wait till this one runs.

[dmrzoom]

Hi Jay. I don't necessarily know enough to describe stuff precisely—my regrets. The starter motor runs, but the engine doesn't turn over. I appreciate your reply!

[JayJay]

Dave - the Westchester Chapter of the Model A Ford Club of America (MAFCA) has its contact person in Bedford Hills, NY, and they meet in Katonah, NY, both less than 20 miles from Stamford. Suggest you give this person a call (see attachment) and see if he can find someone to help you get to know your car. I'd love to help you but I'm located about as far away from you as I can be, and still be in the US.

[1930artdeco]

Welcome to the forum and my 2 cents worth.

I would pull the following to make sure things are clean and ready to fire up.

1-Radiator and thoroughly flush, stick a hose in the head and turn it on full power to clean the block. Then take the hose and put in the side intake port and repeat. That should clean the majority of the rust out of the block. When you reinstall the rad. put on a brand new two blade fan or the 6 blade plastic fan. The original fans have a habit of coming apart and breaking radiators, fans or skulls.

2-Drop the pan (watch out for the oil pump as it will drop out of the block-unless you have the little screw tool from the different suppliers) clean the sludge out and wiggle the rods to see about play. Only take bearings apart if you absolutely have to.

3-Take the valve cover/intake manifolds off. Check valve clearance and clean the sludge out of the chamber. Retime the car, plane the intake/exhaust manifolds and reinstall.

These should get you going and give you a good idea of life left of the engine.

Mike

[700rpm]

Wecome, Dave. As you begin working on the car, if you choose to replace rather than restore , save everything old and original that you replace.Everything!. You’ll appreciate it later. Also, take photos of everything in place before you start into disassembly of anything. The parts suppliers are all good people, but the reproduction items are often problems. Better to restore original pieces if you can.
And keep a log of what you buy, when you bought it, what it cost, and what changes and you make. Read lots of books about Model A’s and write notes to yourself. Good luck. Ray Horton


PS: My great grandfather x 10 was one of the founders of Stamford.

[Thodge]

Welcome Dave,
There have been lots of good suggestions already but there is one thing I would add. We don’t know the condition of the car other than it was restored at some point. That could have been last year, it could have been 50 years ago. You may have a car that just needs a quick run through and tuneup or you might have a car that needs another restoration. We also don’t know how long it has been since the car was on the road. My suggestion would be to at the very least have someone with automotive experience look the car over. Obviously, someone with Model A experience would be best. That could save you a lot of time because they’ll be able to tell you in a few minutes where a lot of the things to watch out for are. At least that way you would know what you really have. You may find that you really don’t need that many parts to get it going again.
I would also recommend getting an owner’s manual and a copy of Les Andrews’ “Red Book”. I’d also recommend doing research to acquaint yourself with the car as far as production changes that were made and which versions you have. If for no other reason than knowing what parts to order. There are differences between early and late ‘31 cars and that’s not taking in to consideration that many of these cars have parts from other years on them.
Unfortunately, it looks like there is no longer a Fairfield County chapter of MAFCA so NY would probably be your closest option if you wanted to go the club route. You and I are at opposite ends of the state but there are a few other CT guys on here regularly that will hopefully chime in that might be closer to you that could help out.

[dmrzoom]

Thank you to everyone who replied with helpful advice! I ordered manuals / downloaded materials that were suggested in various replies and look forward to receiving the printed materials this week.

I removed the starter after adding some penetrating oil to it as it wouldn’t budge. The spring and gears appeared to be in good condition and the motor worked well when I hooked up the battery. I suspect that there’s a short somewhere. I’ll start Traci g stuff once I get the aforementioned materials.

There’s very little rust on the vehicle thanks to it being located only in Georgia and Alabama before we got it. The engine paint is flaking and someday will get a paint job with heat resistant enamel. Exterior paint has a few scratches and a little crackling /spiderwebbing but it looks pretty good.

I’ll reach out to the local club in the next few weeks to see if there is anyone local. My top desire is to get it running and then I’ll figure out what the following priorities are. I also have a 1940 coup that needs brake work at the very least but want at least one of these machines running soon.

Thanks again!!
DaveIMG_9459.jpg

IMG_9457.jpg

IMG_9466.jpg

DMR_1368.jpg