The Ford Barn

Tom Smith · 01-01-2023, 03:36 PM

Looking for detailed information for hot and cold pressures and at what RPM's. Also is Bill still in business, I see the web site does not work.

nkaminar · 01-01-2023, 04:55 PM

I cannot answer whether Bill is still in business but I can shed some light on the output pressure. The engine I removed from my car had insert bearings and pressure lubrication to all 3 main bearings. The rods were dippers. The oil pressure with the Stripe oil pump was 50 psi and did not change much with RPM. The engine had a full flow oil filter. The pressure relief spring was stock.

When I built my Burtz engine I put in a lower force spring for the pressure relief. The pump now puts out about 25 psi and is not too much effected by rpm or oil temperature. I use a multi grade oil and transferred the full flow oil filter to the new engine. If you are going to use an external pressure relief valve that you can adjust, use the stock spring. Otherwise use a lighter weight spring. You may have to stretch the spring to get the pressure you want. You can rig a test with a drill motor, a bucket of oil, and a pressure gauge to set the spring.

Tom Smith · 01-02-2023, 09:16 AM

Thank you for your reply. I will be working on two Burtz motors and was options for Oil Pumps and to what pressures I can get. looks like you were able to get a comfortable pressure with Bill's Pump. I'm looking for possible other alternatives also to make a decision, also not knowing if Stipe pumps are available. I'm surprised that know one has wrote in on the status of Bill.

Benson · 01-02-2023, 10:48 AM

I just called Stipe after trying different old numbers on various websites.

Many websites never get updated because there are just too many of them to find and correct.

They are having phone problems on line 1 of their phone.

Good number today is 1-920-467-9700

She said that they just finished a run of oil pumps.

I got this email also [email protected]

denniskliesen · 01-02-2023, 12:27 PM

If my foundry ever gets on the stick, I’ll have the oil filter/relief valve housing available. It has an external adjustable relief valve so you can set your pressure to the desired amount. My housing has been tested and works perfect for 10 months now. Made specifically for the Burtz block returns oil to the galley without modifications to the block.

Terry Burtz, Calif · 01-03-2023, 12:25 AM

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Tom Smith

Thank you for your reply. I will be working on two Burtz motors and was options for Oil Pumps and to what pressures I can get. looks like you were able to get a comfortable pressure with Bill's Pump. I'm looking for possible other alternatives also to make a decision, also not knowing if Stipe pumps are available. I'm surprised that know one has wrote in on the status of Bill.

The "Old Rule of Thumb" is that you should have 10 PSI oil pressure for every 1000 RPM.

The new engine will survive with even less pressure. Before production, we ran the "engineering evaluation" engine with 10W-30 oil at 3100 RPM (75 MPH without overdrive) for 6 hours and only had 4 PSI at the main oil galley. The oil temperature during the test was 260 degrees F. We used a modified Model A oil pump and upon teardown, it was discovered that we failed to install a 3/8-16 UNC setscrew, and the main oil galley was vented through a 5/16 inch diameter hole. If the missing set screw were in place, the oil pressure would have been the pressure determined by the relief valve.

There are many oil pumps available for the new engine and I believe any of them will work.

High-volume oil pumps can deliver a consistent pressure over the RPM range, but they waste energy because much of the volume delivered goes out the relief valve. Low-volume oil pumps may not deliver 20 PSI at idle if that is what you want to see.

The following is a list of oil pumps being used in the "New Engine".
Modified Model A
Bill Stipe (1-920-467-9700)
Leonard Nettles (dadsvintageautoparts.com)
Dan Price (dan4banger.com)
Timmy McMaster (Hanford Auto Parts)
Joe Sivils (Turlock Machine)

People using the above oil pumps regularly post their experiences on https://www.facebook.com/groups/1123377268114692

If you want instructions on how to modify a Model A oil pump, please contact me at [email protected]

HotRod-1 · 08-03-2024, 04:55 PM

Hello,
Not sure if my question is appropriate for this thread. But here goes. I want to install a new Dan Price oil pump in my model B engine but cannot figure the routing of the internal oil lines. The oil pump came with lines but no instructions. I was hoping someone might have a photo showing the routing inside the engine. Or perhaps a sketch or a link to instructions on how to.

nkaminar · 08-03-2024, 07:06 PM

I am not familiar with the Dan Price oil pump. On my engine, with the Strip oil pump, I had to drill and tap another hole at the proper location to take oil from the pump and send it to the full flow filter. The oil then went back to the oil gallery where the pipe tap is located. You should be able to figure out the plumbing by studying the oil pump and where the oil come out in relation to where the gallery is.

You may need a plug to prevent oil from going directly into the gallery from the pump. I am also not all that familiar with the B engine. Is there a place to access the gallery from the outside of the engine? Maybe by drilling and tapping a hole?

Synchro909 · 08-03-2024, 07:08 PM

When I assembled my Burtz engine, I used a Model A oil pump modified as Terry described in the assembly instructions. When the engine was warm it showed zero pressure but I knew oil was flowing - the engine didn't destroy itself. At highway speeds, (15/40 oil) the gauge showed about 15 psi and again, the engine wasn't worried about it but I was looking for a VERY robust engine for our long trips towing. I installed a modified V8 oil pump and now have 25 psi with a warm engine at highway speeds. 25 psi is what I designed my pressure relief valve to deliver so I am happy with that. There have been times when I have pushed the engine to an estimated 4,500 rpm (well below 10 psi/1,000 rpm)and again, the engine wasn't bothered.
IMO, my experience confirms what Terry said about his "evaluation engine" and its low pressure and how the engine survived. I think some of us overthink these things.
Has there been one of these engines damaged by low oil pressure?

nkaminar · 08-03-2024, 07:49 PM

I looked at the pictures of the oil filter for the Dan Price oil pump and it looks like it is designed for the Burtz engine. The oil comes out of the tap on the side of the engine and then into the gallery for the Burtz engine near the front, see photo. For the B engine, I would think you are going to need a plug to prevent the oil from going from the pump to the gallery and then find a place to plumb the oil back into the gallery after the filter. Can that be done at one of the mounting bolts for the valve chamber cover? Or another place?

nkaminar · 08-03-2024, 07:59 PM

Here is an old discussion that will help. At the last post in the discussion, on the last photo, it shows the plumbing for an oil filter on a B engine. The oil comes out of the tapped hole on the side of the engine, goes to the filter, and then back to a tapped hole at the center of the cover. (Does that go back into the gallery to feed the bearings?) There is a pressure relief valve on top of the filter housing and the oil that is bled off goes to the the front of the engine to help lubricate the cam gear. I suspect that there is a plug in the system to keep oil from going directly into the gallery.

https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showt...=186028&page=3

nkaminar · 08-03-2024, 08:04 PM

If you are not using an external filter then the pump should just put out oil to the gallery that feeds the bearings and the valve chamber. Just study the output location for the pump in relation to the where the oil goes into the gallery.

HotRod-1 · 08-04-2024, 10:26 AM

I plan to use an external filter. Clean oil is nice stuff. I know I need to plumb a couple fittings into the gallery side cover. I just need to know how to get the oil from the pump to the exterior of the motor. Maybe I should review Jim Brierly's book again. Thank you for the leads. Post #31 was quite helpful. Dan Price's oil pump is a really nice pump. Well thought out and easy to install. Has a built in adjustable pressure regulator and output fitting at the head. It's the output line routing that is a bit confusing. Every which way I try the line interferes with the crankshaft's counter weights.

nkaminar · 08-05-2024, 05:33 AM

A photo of what your are trying to do would help. If you cannot post photos on the Barn yet, post them on another site and include a link.

There was a discussion a little while ago on the Ford Barn showing the routing of internal oil tubes. Try a google search, see https://www.google.com/search?q=inte...client=gws-wiz

Jim Brierley · 08-05-2024, 11:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HotRod-1

Hello,
Not sure if my question is appropriate for this thread. But here goes. I want to install a new Dan Price oil pump in my model B engine but cannot figure the routing of the internal oil lines. The oil pump came with lines but no instructions. I was hoping someone might have a photo showing the routing inside the engine. Or perhaps a sketch or a link to instructions on how to.

I've never run a Price pump, but have handled a couple. My memory tells me that Dan ran a line from the pump, through a Model B fuel pump block-off plate and another line to the side cover where the oil galley is. Brass fittings are available, called a bulkhead fitting, that will get you thru that plate. A filter can easily be installed in the system.

HotRod-1 · 08-08-2024, 07:36 PM

Thanks Jim for the info. I'm a bit embarrassed on why I could not get the line provided by Dan Price to fit. I had the output line connected to the input port on the pump. But yes the output line exits the block through the fuel pump hole. By the way, your Brierley ground cam is installed and ready for action. Thanks everyone for responding.

01-01-2023, 03:36 PM	#1
Tom Smith Member Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Spencerport,NY Posts: 50	Stipe Oil pumps Looking for detailed information for hot and cold pressures and at what RPM's. Also is Bill still in business, I see the web site does not work.

01-01-2023, 04:55 PM	#2
nkaminar Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Western North Carolina Posts: 5,854	Re: Stipe Oil pumps I cannot answer whether Bill is still in business but I can shed some light on the output pressure. The engine I removed from my car had insert bearings and pressure lubrication to all 3 main bearings. The rods were dippers. The oil pressure with the Stripe oil pump was 50 psi and did not change much with RPM. The engine had a full flow oil filter. The pressure relief spring was stock. When I built my Burtz engine I put in a lower force spring for the pressure relief. The pump now puts out about 25 psi and is not too much effected by rpm or oil temperature. I use a multi grade oil and transferred the full flow oil filter to the new engine. If you are going to use an external pressure relief valve that you can adjust, use the stock spring. Otherwise use a lighter weight spring. You may have to stretch the spring to get the pressure you want. You can rig a test with a drill motor, a bucket of oil, and a pressure gauge to set the spring. __________________ A is for apple, green as the sky. Step on the gas, for tomorrow I die. Forget the brakes, they really don't work. The clutch always sticks, and starts with a jerk. My car grows red hair, and flies through the air. Driving's a blast, a blast from the past.

01-02-2023, 10:48 AM	#4
Benson Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Cen~Col - Central Highlands Posts: 2,757	Re: Stipe Oil pumps I just called Stipe after trying different old numbers on various websites. Many websites never get updated because there are just too many of them to find and correct. They are having phone problems on line 1 of their phone. Good number today is 1-920-467-9700 She said that they just finished a run of oil pumps. I got this email also [email protected] Last edited by Benson; 01-03-2023 at 02:58 AM.

01-02-2023, 12:27 PM	#5
denniskliesen Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2016 Location: SoCal Posts: 877	Re: Stipe Oil pumps If my foundry ever gets on the stick, I’ll have the oil filter/relief valve housing available. It has an external adjustable relief valve so you can set your pressure to the desired amount. My housing has been tested and works perfect for 10 months now. Made specifically for the Burtz block returns oil to the galley without modifications to the block.

08-03-2024, 04:55 PM	#7
HotRod-1 Junior Member Join Date: Sep 2013 Posts: 3	Re: Stipe Oil pumps Hello, Not sure if my question is appropriate for this thread. But here goes. I want to install a new Dan Price oil pump in my model B engine but cannot figure the routing of the internal oil lines. The oil pump came with lines but no instructions. I was hoping someone might have a photo showing the routing inside the engine. Or perhaps a sketch or a link to instructions on how to.

01-02-2023, 09:16 AM	#3
Tom Smith Member Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Spencerport,NY Posts: 50	Re: Stipe Oil pumps Thank you for your reply. I will be working on two Burtz motors and was options for Oil Pumps and to what pressures I can get. looks like you were able to get a comfortable pressure with Bill's Pump. I'm looking for possible other alternatives also to make a decision, also not knowing if Stipe pumps are available. I'm surprised that know one has wrote in on the status of Bill.

08-03-2024, 07:08 PM	#9
Synchro909 Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2014 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 8,041	Re: Stipe Oil pumps When I assembled my Burtz engine, I used a Model A oil pump modified as Terry described in the assembly instructions. When the engine was warm it showed zero pressure but I knew oil was flowing - the engine didn't destroy itself. At highway speeds, (15/40 oil) the gauge showed about 15 psi and again, the engine wasn't worried about it but I was looking for a VERY robust engine for our long trips towing. I installed a modified V8 oil pump and now have 25 psi with a warm engine at highway speeds. 25 psi is what I designed my pressure relief valve to deliver so I am happy with that. There have been times when I have pushed the engine to an estimated 4,500 rpm (well below 10 psi/1,000 rpm)and again, the engine wasn't bothered. IMO, my experience confirms what Terry said about his "evaluation engine" and its low pressure and how the engine survived. I think some of us overthink these things. Has there been one of these engines damaged by low oil pressure? __________________ I sometimes wonder what happened to the people who asked me for directions. Even at my age, I still like to look at a young, attractive woman but I can't really remember why.

08-03-2024, 07:59 PM	#11
nkaminar Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Western North Carolina Posts: 5,854	Re: Stipe Oil pumps Here is an old discussion that will help. At the last post in the discussion, on the last photo, it shows the plumbing for an oil filter on a B engine. The oil comes out of the tapped hole on the side of the engine, goes to the filter, and then back to a tapped hole at the center of the cover. (Does that go back into the gallery to feed the bearings?) There is a pressure relief valve on top of the filter housing and the oil that is bled off goes to the the front of the engine to help lubricate the cam gear. I suspect that there is a plug in the system to keep oil from going directly into the gallery. https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showt...=186028&page=3 __________________ A is for apple, green as the sky. Step on the gas, for tomorrow I die. Forget the brakes, they really don't work. The clutch always sticks, and starts with a jerk. My car grows red hair, and flies through the air. Driving's a blast, a blast from the past. Last edited by nkaminar; 08-03-2024 at 08:05 PM.

08-03-2024, 08:04 PM	#12
nkaminar Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Western North Carolina Posts: 5,854	Re: Stipe Oil pumps If you are not using an external filter then the pump should just put out oil to the gallery that feeds the bearings and the valve chamber. Just study the output location for the pump in relation to the where the oil goes into the gallery. __________________ A is for apple, green as the sky. Step on the gas, for tomorrow I die. Forget the brakes, they really don't work. The clutch always sticks, and starts with a jerk. My car grows red hair, and flies through the air. Driving's a blast, a blast from the past.

08-04-2024, 10:26 AM	#13
HotRod-1 Junior Member Join Date: Sep 2013 Posts: 3	Re: Stipe Oil pumps I plan to use an external filter. Clean oil is nice stuff. I know I need to plumb a couple fittings into the gallery side cover. I just need to know how to get the oil from the pump to the exterior of the motor. Maybe I should review Jim Brierly's book again. Thank you for the leads. Post #31 was quite helpful. Dan Price's oil pump is a really nice pump. Well thought out and easy to install. Has a built in adjustable pressure regulator and output fitting at the head. It's the output line routing that is a bit confusing. Every which way I try the line interferes with the crankshaft's counter weights.

08-05-2024, 05:33 AM	#14
nkaminar Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Western North Carolina Posts: 5,854	Re: Stipe Oil pumps A photo of what your are trying to do would help. If you cannot post photos on the Barn yet, post them on another site and include a link. There was a discussion a little while ago on the Ford Barn showing the routing of internal oil tubes. Try a google search, see https://www.google.com/search?q=inte...client=gws-wiz __________________ A is for apple, green as the sky. Step on the gas, for tomorrow I die. Forget the brakes, they really don't work. The clutch always sticks, and starts with a jerk. My car grows red hair, and flies through the air. Driving's a blast, a blast from the past.

08-08-2024, 07:36 PM	#16
HotRod-1 Junior Member Join Date: Sep 2013 Posts: 3	Re: Stipe Oil pumps Thanks Jim for the info. I'm a bit embarrassed on why I could not get the line provided by Dan Price to fit. I had the output line connected to the input port on the pump. But yes the output line exits the block through the fuel pump hole. By the way, your Brierley ground cam is installed and ready for action. Thanks everyone for responding.