New to V-8's

[BillCNC]

Hey All,

Model A guy here and I had the good luck of buying a 21 stud v-8 that is coupled to a giant generator that's mounted on a trailer. I only want the motor and the guy is removing the motor and all parts associated with it, and will drop it off in a few hours.

The motor turns freely, but the butterfly on the carb is locked. I tried starting it a couple of times but didn't want to press it until I can prep the motor properly before I start it.

I have a fair amount of the model A engine experience, but nothing on the v-8. It hasn't run in a few years and I just don't want to attack it blindly.

I was wondering what I should be doing before starting her?

Regards
Bill

[rockfla]

Welcome
Being new to this forum, you might have to have 10’post before you can post pictures BUT in this case……given the application, number of years past and subsequent potential for modifications, pictures will sure help when asking for advice on potential repairs of what you are getting!!! Good luck with it!!

[tubman]

I don't think he'll have any problems with 581 posts.

It's probably a Stromberg 97 carb, so I'd be careful with it; they're good to have. Otherwise, pull the plugs (be careful with using too much force). If you can get them out, fill the cylinders with you favorite "mystery juice" (Acetone/ATF, MMO, Seafoam, whatever) and let it sit a few days. Also, drain the oil and see what it looks like; it will tell you a lot. I once bought a '56 Hemi that had been pulled from a dump truck with a bad transmission. When I drained the oil, it looked like had been put in the day before; a quick dissection of the oil filter proved the same. It turned over easily manually, and had good compression, so I tried to start it. It fired right up and ran great. Sometimes it's better to be lucky than smart.

[Bored&Stroked]

It comes down to how has the motor been stored, maintained and when was it last ran? I am always suspect of what can be "lurking in the oil pan" - so I'd always pull the pan and clean it out. This is especially true in that non-detergent oil was ran for years in most of these old engines and it creates a thick/gooey sludge in the bottom of the pan (especially after sitting). The last thing you want to do is start cranking it over and having the oil pump try to pump that crap through the engine. And whether it is successful or not, it can sure destroy the bearings/babbit in the process. I'd also pull the intake to see how the valley looks - just in case critters managed to get in there, build a few nests, etc..

Lastly, while you have the pan off, might as well checkout the crank journals and bearings - so you can get a real idea as to the condition of the bottom end.

I'd also pull the oil pump and at the very least clean it out, inspect the internals, etc.. Usually I'd put a new oil pump in it - if there is any doubts as to overall condition.

If you're energetic, you could pull the heads, inspect the block for cracks, inspect the bores, inspect the valves/seats for rust, etc.. This is also a good way to clean/lubricate the bores, clean the valves (especially the ones in the 'open' position, etc..). Obviously, if things look good, then you put it back together with a new set of head gaskets.

Yes, this takes some time and some gaskets, but at least you'll know what you have and THEN determine what is next . . . re-assemble and start it, fix anything wrong, etc..

Anyway, that is the path I always take.
B&S

[highbeams]

Originally Posted by Bored&Stroked

It comes down to how has the motor been stored, maintained and when was it last ran? I am always suspect of what can be "lurking in the oil pan" - so I'd always pull the pan and clean it out. This is especially true in that non-detergent oil was ran for years in most of these old engines and it creates a thick/gooey sludge in the bottom of the pan (especially after sitting). The last thing you want to do is start cranking it over and having the oil pump try to pump that crap through the engine. And whether it is successful or not, it can sure destroy the bearings/babbit in the process. I'd also pull the intake to see how the valley looks - just in case critters managed to get in there, build a few nests, etc..

Lastly, while you have the pan off, might as well checkout the crank journals and bearings - so you can get a real idea as to the condition of the bottom end.

I'd also pull the oil pump and at the very least clean it out, inspect the internals, etc.. Usually I'd put a new oil pump in it - if there is any doubts as to overall condition.

If you're energetic, you could pull the heads, inspect the block for cracks, inspect the bores, inspect the valves/seats for rust, etc.. This is also a good way to clean/lubricate the bores, clean the valves (especially the ones in the 'open' position, etc..). Obviously, if things look good, then you put it back together with a new set of head gaskets.

Yes, this takes some time and some gaskets, but at least you'll know what you have and THEN determine what is next . . . re-assemble and start it, fix anything wrong, etc..

Anyway, that is the path I always take.
B&S

The sludge is oil remnant, and it isn't going anywhere. Who would 'clean out' an oil pan. Bring that subject up in the '30s, '40s. '50s, you'ld get crinkled-eyebrow looks, til one of the listeners would break out laughing.

@75, never heard of such a comment until years back there was a similar question on here. An oil pan is not a dinner plate! Just my opinion!

[Bored&Stroked]

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You asked the question, "who would clean out an oil pan"? Well, I would and do - every dang time.

So, the sludge is not going anywhere? Maybe the oil has sat in the engine for many years and the oil-pickup is submerged in a thick gooey mess (have seen it many times), so you drain a bit of it and go to AutoZone and grab some quarts of "modern" detergent oil and change it (makes you feel good).

Now, think about putting a nice new batch of detergent oil in the pan full of sludge - guess what? All that crap in the pan now comes loose and goes through your bearings and/or your nice new oil doesn't get to anyplace it needs to go. Bye Bye lower end . . .

Just because we did it a certain way 50 years ago, doesn't make it the right thing to do today. Heck, if you screwed up a flathead then, you went to the junkyard and bought another one for cheap - because there were a LOT of them.

Me? - I think an oil pan is a sump for crap to sit in . . . and I'm not eating dinner out of it as God only knows what is lurking in the crud.

[cas3]

The crud in the pan is not a mystery, its worn metal of all types, its carbon chunks, and perhaps genuine dirt that found its way in thru the breather or god knows where. When you run that thru your motor, the hard stuff embeds itself into the soft metals like bearings and brass, and now you have made yourself some home made sand paper to chew up all the rotating hard parts that are now running on sand paper. Like mr B&S says above, same thing when you put modern detergent oil in a dirty old motor, you have loosened up all the crap to make sand paper out of bearings. Have you ever pulled the dipstick on an engine that has not run in 30-40-50- years to see that its clean and looks like honey? Its not clean, all the crap has settled in the pan ! you can prove this at home just if you have some jugs of drain oil around, pour out the oil and see how much crud has settled to the bottom, you can scrape it up with a spoon even in one year, now multiply that by longer than most of us will live, and you will have a jug of clean "looking" oil. Hard to imagine anyone would argue that a clean oil pan is not a desirable thing !!

[BillCNC]

Here are some pictures:

Regards
Bill

[BillCNC]

Round 2

The radiator is sitting next to my 31 Model A radiator. It's MASSIVE and requires two people to move it.

Regards
Bill

[cas3]

Its got an oil filter, thats a good sign, the rest is irrelevant until its pressure tested. Strip off all the accessory's and have the block checked and it will sell for sure. The oval shaped cutout is a special thing, I forget what they are for, someone else will know. The big radiator is 50 bucks of brass now days

[ford38v8]

Bill, That's a massive radiator all right! Not a Ford, but I'm sure it worked well for the stationary unit.
Your carburetor's controls are probably locked with rust. It's a .94, not a Stromberg. The base is a Holley manufacture of a Chandler Groves, with no model number on the opposite side, which makes it a very early 1939. Not rare, but scarce, and would be of a slightly premium value but for the condition of the controls and the mating of a later air horn, as evidenced by the internal vent.

[BillCNC]

Would this engine be a mid 38?

Regards
Bill

[Brian]

yes, 37 or 38

[rotorwrench]

With pumps, it is either 37 or 38. Any motor with a governor is definitely industrial. They were used for big pumps, compressors, and generators. It has all the frontal stuff associated with big truck or fixed industrial set ups. The generator is an original 3-brush with the two stage current control cut out on it. It should be a good little motor for someone that wants or needs a 21-stud engine. Genuine bona fide 85-HP V8 mill for sure.

[BillCNC]

Thanks guy's. now I'm feeling like I got what I needed.

Yesterday when I went to look at it it was still mounted to the generator all on a trailer which I didn't want so I paid the guy $75. to remove everything motor related. He said he would drop it off in 3 hours. Lol, 100 degree weather and 9 hours later, he dropped off the engine and radiator.

Best $75. I have spent in a long time.

The generator was about 24" in diameter and about 36" long and was used to power a giant welder. I told him to strip the copper out of the generator to make up for the time.

BTW, does anyone have any info on the Pierce governor? I cant find any info on them or if it's something i should hang on to or not.

Regards
Bill

[petehoovie]

MANUFACTURER OF GOVERNORS SINCE 1913 - Gilmore Global Instruments

PIERCE Long Range Universal Governor


https://gilmore-global.com › wp-content › uploads › 2019 › 02 › GC979R5-Instructions.pdf

This governor is manually lubricated. Before starting engine, remov e pipe plug K . Pour oil into oil cup L until it runs out of housing. Use same grade motor oil as used in the engine crankcase. Replace pipe plug K and secure snugly. Check oil weekly.

[rotorwrench]

Engine run welders will bog down in rpm pretty quick if a fast acting rpm governor is not there to keep the rpm up. It would be very important for a welding rig. For a car or truck, not to much. Someone with a Funk H-6 or V8 Ford tractor conversion might need a governor.

[BillCNC]

Thank you to all for your comments.

I ordered one cap for the left side, an oil filter, a pan gasket, and the Ford - Merc repair manual 37 - 48 and will be here tomorrow.

I stripped the top accessories off and am cleaning it up and prepping it so I can lift her up onto on the test stand that's almost finished. I'll also pull the pan off and give it a look before going any further and If all looks good, I'll order anything else needed to wake her up.

Regards
Bill

[Bored&Stroked]

Hey Bill - since you're going to pull the pan, are you planning on putting it on an engine stand? If so, DO NOT bolt to the bellhousing . . . it is not designed to carry the weight of a fully assembled engine. We've seen cases where they have been broken/cracked off.

You need an engine stand adapter that bolts where the exhaust manifold bolts up (on the side of the block) - this is the safe way to mount the engine so you can work on it.

I bought my adapter from Stumpy's Fab Works - I think they now cost $80.

https://www.stumpysfabworks.com/stor..._Products.html