Water pump

[Lenny Bruce]

Hi guys I’m making some great progress getting my A going thanks to you all. Have a question…My new leakless water pump has some grease coming from the front sealed bearing. Also the fan moves slightly towards the radiator and back
When running and also when turned off. Is this ok? I know of a few fellas that say absolutely no play at all is the way to go. I was just wondering if I should call and get it replaced while it’s still brand new?

[Joe K]

Some grease from the front is probably normal. Wipe it up so it doesn't spatter in the wind and don't grease it again for MANY miles. (Modern bearings are typically "sealed for life" and don't need the periodic grease zerk refilling. Bearing quality has IMMEASURABLY increased in the years since the Model A.)

As to front-back movement - the standard is 0.010 both with original pumps and leakless pumps with roller type front bearings. This is about the thickness of three or four 3x5 cards, maybe the thickness of a credit card.

The ideal situation is one where the water pump "airplanes" forward on the action of the fan, but on shut down the pump shaft returns to its fully rearward position. I know of no way to assure this action. It may be luck.

This movement has a purpose in that with either original packed bearings or the rubber "lip seal" used on most leakless pumps it prevents the seal from "cutting a groove" into the pump shaft. Some movement spreads the wear out AND it provides a way for some water to be introduced between seal surfaces to act as lubricant. It may "drip a drop" occasionally - which is actually a good thing. Use of a "coolant lubricant" aimed at extending water pump life is not a bad idea.

Meanwhile back at the design ranch, at least one maker of leakless pumps has provided a front bearing which "positively captivates" the pump shaft. Instead of roller bearings/sleeve, he provides an actual front ball or angular roller bearing. A "bearing cartridge" if you will. Possible because of that quality of bearing thing again. On this pump you don't want and can't have movement. I'm not sure how the manufacturer prevents the seal from cutting into the shaft.

Back in the day at least one maker of aftermarket pumps used the same impeller/pump scheme as Ford used on the then new V8 which normally had TWO water pumps. A single impeller Model A pump was provided with the V8 impeller/seal - which is of the type where no movement was required (instead of an axial shaft seal, the seal was effected "radially" between two ceramic running surfaces.) The rest of the pump was ordinary and similar to the Model A water pump EXCEPT the front bearing was a sleeve instead of a roller bearing - a decidedly short-lived option considering that Ford had already tried a sleeve bearing in this location during development of the Model A and was dissatisfied with service life. But - this was "aftermarket" - where one pays the minimum of money and takes the maximum of chances.

Joe K

[Lenny Bruce]

That makes me feel much better. My older brother has a 31 Tudor and his leakless pump has no movement at all so I became concerned when I saw mine doing it’s thing. If I had to guess by just watching…it may move more then the thickness of 3 or so playing cards but like you said no way to assure its movement. I suppose I’d best just keep an eye on it and keep on rolling. I half thought to at least call the vendor and let them know my concern while it’s still a new part. But you have very kindly and thoroughly explained how things work with the pump. Thank you very much for taking the time to answer my question. I appreciate it greatly! Lenny

[Lenny Bruce]

Joe would you recommend a coolant Lubricant by any chance?

[Dino's A]

Coolant lubricant-soluble oil. Or if your parts store still has the
anti-rust / water pump lubricant that was soluble oil with water.

Soluble oil is that stuff we used on a lathe to cool the metal.
You can buy the oil yourself, add water and your pretty close to
what was sold. Oil will turn milky white when water is added.

[rotorwrench]

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Sealed bearings will expel any excess grease pretty quickly. Small bearings will do this on the first run.

I don't have much experience with the ball bearing pumps. A lot depends on whether the shaft is a tight fit with the bearing inner race or not. If the bearing limits the end play then it should be OK. If it doesn't then there are adjustable thrust collars with a nylon washer that can be locked on the front of the shaft to limit the end play. This is common with the old style leak less water pump set ups. Many of the rub blocks in the cylinder heads are worn too much to be effective. The fan will generally still fit over these adjustable thrust collars. Here is a link with a photo.
https://www.snydersantiqueauto.com/p...9255&cat=41793

[Lenny Bruce]

Awesome thanks fellas!