The Ford Barn

james heider · 12-25-2010, 03:41 PM

I purchased a 1931 Model A Victoria in Sept. of 2010. The car was undergoing a restoration in Texas in the 1980s. The man that owned the car died before it was completed and it sat for over 20 years in storage,

The motor was rebuilt around 1986. The number stamped on the block is *AA4755064* . Would this be an early 28 block that was put into this car or a truck motor? The AA throws me.

Jim

Jim Parker Toronto · 12-25-2010, 03:58 PM

The AA would represent a truck block, sorry don't know a date for the number, maybe someone else does or you could look it up on one of the websites listed above.

Grapejuice · 12-25-2010, 04:13 PM

The motor number sequence appears to be July '31, according to this chart:
http://www.modelaparts.net/enginenum...nenumbers.html

Mike V. Florida · 12-25-2010, 06:51 PM

Yea, the AA is a truck motor. My son is restoring a '31 Vicky as well.

Chris Haynes · 12-25-2010, 10:17 PM

That is a July 1931 AA Truck engine.

Charlie Stephens · 12-25-2010, 11:08 PM

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim Parker Toronto

The AA would represent a truck block, sorry don't know a date for the number, maybe someone else does or you could look it up on one of the websites listed above.

The engines were the same, the AA only meant that a truck clutch or transmission was attached depending on when it was built.

Charlie Stephens

Bob Johnson · 12-25-2010, 11:21 PM

Engine #4755064 was made on Jul 8, 1931

go to http://www.modelahouse.com/cgi-bin/enumbers/numdate
to find when any engine was made.

Bob

james heider · 12-26-2010, 06:21 AM

Thanks everyone for your replys. When I purchased this car it came with another motor that needs rebuilding. The number on this block is A4454421 and below it is stamped A1044.

So based on the charts this motor is from March of 1931. This Vicky is an early model so it is possible that this spare block is the original motor.

I am going to remove the body from the frame to check the serial number and hopefully this spare block number matches the frame number.

Jim

Steve Plucker · 12-26-2010, 10:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by james heider

Thanks everyone for your replys. When I purchased this car it came with another motor that needs rebuilding. The number on this block is A4454421 and below it is stamped A1044.

So based on the charts this motor is from March of 1931. This Vicky is an early model so it is possible that this spare block is the original motor.

I am going to remove the body from the frame to check the serial number and hopefully this spare block number matches the frame number.

Jim

Jim, There is one other aspect about your block with the "A1044" stamped below the A4454421.

Is the engine number pad, with those numbers stamped onto it, is it the same texture as the rest of the block OR has it been ground down to where it is very smooth?

IF THE LATTER...then you have a block where the original number was ground off the engine and it was what we call in this Model A hobby, a RESTAMP ENGINE and more than likely NOT the original engine for your car. The restamp engine had a different engine number and may be an earlier engine than a 1931 block.

Pluck

james heider · 12-26-2010, 12:03 PM

Steve,

I just looked at the pad on the block and it is the same texture as the rest of the block. I compared the height of the pad on this block to the pad that is on the motor in the car and they appear to be about the same thickness leading me to believe that the one has never been ground down.
Could it be the motor was rebuilt in Oct ober 1944 and that accounts for the 1044?

james heider · 12-26-2010, 01:45 PM

Here is a picture of the motor number with the 1044 below it.

Steve Plucker · 12-26-2010, 02:46 PM

Jim,

Not sure...it may be a later block, past Model A production period.

Can you take a better picture, like stright on?

Put some white chalk on the numbers so they stand out.

Thanks.

Pluck

Purdy Swoft · 12-26-2010, 03:26 PM

It is my understanding that some model A's , even victorias, came from the factory with the truck four speed transmixer. I'm guessing that these cars could have had the AA prefix to the motor number. I really don't know. If the frame number has the AA prefix and the same number as the engine, I would think that it may be original.

Chris Haynes · 12-26-2010, 04:20 PM

Engine #4454421 was made on Mar 18, 1931. It could be the original engine but ya won't know until ya lift the body to see the frame number. Good luck to ya.

Chris in WNC · 12-26-2010, 07:11 PM

perhaps a rebuilder put his mark on it in October 1944....

Ed Saniewski · 12-27-2010, 07:45 AM

I thought I read someplace where Ford stopped stamping the engines with AA early in production because the standard clutch was good enough for the truck trans.

Steve Plucker · 12-27-2010, 08:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ed Saniewski

I thought I read someplace where Ford stopped stamping the engines with AA early in production because the standard clutch was good enough for the truck trans.

You are absolutly correct in that assumtion Ed. It started with engine number A26268 (Feb. 16, 1928)...HOWEVER Ford reinstated the "AA" about the first of May 1928 and remained as such throughout the Model A Ford era because of the increase strenght of the AA clutch springs.

Pluck

james heider · 02-27-2011, 02:52 PM

I lifted the Victoria body off the frame today and found that the frame number matches the spare motor. It looks like the motor was replaced. with a later block.

I now have a problem in that my Florida title shows the serial number of the car as the later motor number and not the frame number.
Any ideas on how I can get the title corrected?

Steve Plucker · 02-27-2011, 04:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Timothy Kelly

An observation......

It appears to me that the number on the engine pictured is A4464421, as opposed to A4454421 (which was never produced according to the daily production chart; no engines produced within the following range: A4450001 through A4460000.)

The engine depicted, A4464421 was produced on March 18, 1931 (as was previously reported for what appears to me to be a non-exisitent number.)

A4454421 lies in a block of 10,000 "omitted" engine numbers which were assigned to the English Ford plant to use in their vehicles.

Tim, you are correct in saying that it was "never produced"...HOWEVER "never produced" in the USA market that is. If the engine number was used in the English market, then it would be AF4454421.

Pluck

Steve Plucker · 02-27-2011, 04:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by james heider

I lifted the Victoria body off the frame today and found that the frame number matches the spare motor. It looks like the motor was replaced. with a later block.

I now have a problem in that my Florida title shows the serial number of the car as the later motor number and not the frame number.
Any ideas on how I can get the title corrected?

Check this out:

REGISTRATION LAWS FOR HOBBY CARS IN ALL STATES
1. http://www.semasan.com/main/main.aspx?id=62843 (Specialty Equipment Marketing Association or SEMA)

Pluck

12-25-2010, 03:41 PM	#1
james heider Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 125	Motor number I purchased a 1931 Model A Victoria in Sept. of 2010. The car was undergoing a restoration in Texas in the 1980s. The man that owned the car died before it was completed and it sat for over 20 years in storage, The motor was rebuilt around 1986. The number stamped on the block is AA4755064 . Would this be an early 28 block that was put into this car or a truck motor? The AA throws me. Jim

12-25-2010, 03:58 PM	#2
Jim Parker Toronto Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada Posts: 1,289	Re: Motor number The AA would represent a truck block, sorry don't know a date for the number, maybe someone else does or you could look it up on one of the websites listed above.

12-25-2010, 04:13 PM	#3
Grapejuice Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Richardson, TX Posts: 123	Re: Motor number The motor number sequence appears to be July '31, according to this chart: http://www.modelaparts.net/enginenum...nenumbers.html __________________ Alan 1930 Cabriolet (the newest project) 1929 Special Coupe (pieces n parts) 1928 Sport Coupe (the driver)

12-25-2010, 10:17 PM	#5
Chris Haynes Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Camarillo, CA and Pine Grove, CA Posts: 2,962	Re: Motor number That is a July 1931 AA Truck engine. __________________ 1921 Runabout 1930 Tudor Early 1930 AA Speed costs money. How fast do you want to go?

12-25-2010, 11:21 PM	#7
Bob Johnson Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: California Posts: 1,012	Re: Motor number Engine #4755064 was made on Jul 8, 1931 go to http://www.modelahouse.com/cgi-bin/enumbers/numdate to find when any engine was made. Bob

12-25-2010, 06:51 PM	#4
Mike V. Florida Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Florida between Sarasota and TampaSouth Florida Posts: 14,054	Re: Motor number Yea, the AA is a truck motor. My son is restoring a '31 Vicky as well. __________________ What's right about America is that although we have a mess of problems, we have great capacity - intellect and resources - to do some thing about them. - Henry Ford II

12-26-2010, 06:21 AM	#8
james heider Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 125	Re: Motor number Thanks everyone for your replys. When I purchased this car it came with another motor that needs rebuilding. The number on this block is A4454421 and below it is stamped A1044. So based on the charts this motor is from March of 1931. This Vicky is an early model so it is possible that this spare block is the original motor. I am going to remove the body from the frame to check the serial number and hopefully this spare block number matches the frame number. Jim

12-26-2010, 12:03 PM	#10
james heider Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 125	Re: Motor number Steve, I just looked at the pad on the block and it is the same texture as the rest of the block. I compared the height of the pad on this block to the pad that is on the motor in the car and they appear to be about the same thickness leading me to believe that the one has never been ground down. Could it be the motor was rebuilt in Oct ober 1944 and that accounts for the 1044?

12-26-2010, 02:46 PM	#12
Steve Plucker BANNED Join Date: May 2010 Location: Walla Walla, Washington USA Posts: 6,066	Re: Motor number Jim, Not sure...it may be a later block, past Model A production period. Can you take a better picture, like stright on? Put some white chalk on the numbers so they stand out. Thanks. Pluck

12-26-2010, 03:26 PM	#13
Purdy Swoft Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Alabama Posts: 8,099	Re: Motor number It is my understanding that some model A's , even victorias, came from the factory with the truck four speed transmixer. I'm guessing that these cars could have had the AA prefix to the motor number. I really don't know. If the frame number has the AA prefix and the same number as the engine, I would think that it may be original.

12-26-2010, 04:20 PM	#14
Chris Haynes Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Camarillo, CA and Pine Grove, CA Posts: 2,962	Re: Motor number Engine #4454421 was made on Mar 18, 1931. It could be the original engine but ya won't know until ya lift the body to see the frame number. Good luck to ya. __________________ 1921 Runabout 1930 Tudor Early 1930 AA Speed costs money. How fast do you want to go?

12-26-2010, 07:11 PM	#15
Chris in WNC Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Spruce Pine, NC Posts: 1,498	Re: Motor number perhaps a rebuilder put his mark on it in October 1944....

12-27-2010, 07:45 AM	#16
Ed Saniewski Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Denville NJ Posts: 975	Re: Motor number I thought I read someplace where Ford stopped stamping the engines with AA early in production because the standard clutch was good enough for the truck trans. __________________ Model A Ford Club of New Jersey http://www.mafcnj.org Model A Pick Up Owners and Enthusiasts https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/group.php?groupid=5

02-27-2011, 02:52 PM	#18
james heider Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 125	Re: Motor number I lifted the Victoria body off the frame today and found that the frame number matches the spare motor. It looks like the motor was replaced. with a later block. I now have a problem in that my Florida title shows the serial number of the car as the later motor number and not the frame number. Any ideas on how I can get the title corrected?