The Ford Barn

51merc · 01-20-2011, 08:45 PM

still haven't been able to get it to rotate, even after PB Blasting the cylinders; went ahead and dropped the pan(appears to be a ford crank).gonna remove the oil pump and was considering going ahead and removing the crankshaft; if i remove the bottom part of the connecting rod bearing clamps, and the three main bearing caps from the crank itself, shouldn't the crank drop out? i'm hoping this might enable me to get those pistons to move a little bit.
thanks in advance

Jack E/NJ · 01-20-2011, 08:49 PM

Might be stuck valves your dealing with.

Jack E/NJ

51merc · 01-20-2011, 09:26 PM

probably should've just kept the original thread going as to not confuse.
jack, i've already got the valve assemblies out, as well as the cam.

Flathead Fever · 01-20-2011, 09:28 PM

You could try and remove the cam gear and see if it will rotate, that way you will know if it is stuck valves or pistons. I had one engine that was stuck so bad I had to break the pistons into little pieces to get them out.

wiretwister · 01-20-2011, 09:38 PM

Just finished a 50 teardown. Stuck pistons are a real pain in the butt.

I tried to take out the crankshaft so I could get a better hammer swing to the pistons.

The crank will not come out with just the rod caps and main caps removed. The angle of the cylinders puts the rods close together so there is not room to get the crank out without sliding the pistons and rod up. If they are stuck you can't move them.

I finally got several long pieces of old oak lumber and after soaking for more than a month was able to beat the pistons up enough to get the crank out.

Like the frog said "DON'T EVER GIVE UP".
bill

Straightpipes · 01-20-2011, 10:42 PM

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I'd leave the main caps on and remove the pistons. You can't get the crank out without removing the rods and pistons. I've used a hole saw to cut the heads off the pistons. Then break them out.

Ol' Ron · 01-20-2011, 11:39 PM

Removing the cam gear is a good idea.
Try 50/50 mix for several days.
Crank will not come out with rods in place.
Last but not least, "Slow down, you'll get done sooner"
Keep the rod caps together.

51merc · 01-20-2011, 11:48 PM

took the rod caps off, along with the main caps, only had one piston stuck so bad it wouldn't come out, even with a little coaxing with the ole BFH. gonna soak that one for a while. crank came right on out, after turning it a bit to get the rods to clear the cylinders.
thanks guys, i'm going to bed now....

Mr 42 · 01-21-2011, 12:01 AM

This is how i did one of mine. Without breaking the pistons.

http://www.brandow.eu//album/59abII/index.html

JerseyJim · 01-21-2011, 08:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr 42

This is how i did one of mine. Without breaking the pistons.

http://www.brandow.eu//album/59abII/index.html

Good reference here. The comment about using kerosene is a good tip for all. It's relatively cheap and it does an excellent job. Adding a little motor oil to the kerosene leaves a lubricating residue behind. Like an old cook, I tend to do things to taste rather than an exact science, but I would guess that I use about one part oil to nine parts kerosene.

Ol' Ron · 01-21-2011, 09:45 AM

You might want to avoid using the BFH on the pistons, I cracked a cy;inder wall doing that.

Mr 42 · 01-21-2011, 11:31 AM

When i used my big Cresentwrench and BFH it put all force on the piston wrist pin instead of the piston itself.

And i think ist better to add the kerosene from the backside/underside of the piston, Or if you have patience from both sides.

Mart · 01-21-2011, 12:06 PM

I did a similar job recently on a scrap 21 stud motor.
I had stuck pistons.
I got the crank out by wiggling it past the rods.
I then got a long punch up against the base of the piston crown, where it's thick and with a couple of good hard knocks, broke the heads clean off the pistons. Once the head was gone, the rod and remnants of the pistons came out quite easily.

Didn't take a pic during the process, but here are the rods and remnants after removal.

Mart.

Jack E/NJ · 01-21-2011, 12:44 PM

Mart, that's one ugly pix you got there. I don't think I could bring myself to do it even on a "scrap motor". I'd rather do the old trick of letting the motor rest on a breaker bar on the crank nut, keep lubing the cylinders every few days until you see the block starting to move down from the gravitational pull of the world. Might take a week or maybe even a month. But eventually gravity will do its thing without having to resort to such violence. 8^)

Jack E/NJ

FlatheadTed · 01-21-2011, 02:00 PM

If there's a build up of heavy rust on the top of the pistons there's no way they will force past the rust , forget the Kero /oil ,The rust needs to be removed ,The best thing for that is soak it in Vinegar for at least two weeks,

40fordpu · 01-21-2011, 07:57 PM

As an amateur, I used ford barn for advice. The guys recommended every substance under the sun to try and free up a stuck piston. Nothing worked!!! Not even the lumber or hitting the head of the piston...nothing. The ONLY way to get a really stuck head out is to collapse the center of the piston head. Be careful not to hit the rod, but DRILL 4 to 5 holes around the outside of the head, dont hit the wall of the cylinder. Use a bit just smaller than your pinky. Then hit the piston right in the middle. The piston middle collapses the walls of the piston free from the cylinder wall. I wasted 1 month trying to soak it. Took me 15 mins to drill and get loose. Chances are if the piston is stuck, the motor needs some cleaning and probably new pistons. Good luck.

Jack E/NJ · 01-21-2011, 08:51 PM

40forpu wrote:>>>I wasted 1 month trying to soak it.>>>

Shoulda given it 2 months, then. 8^)

Jack E/NJ

Ol' Ron · 01-21-2011, 11:15 PM

For the real bad rusted in pistons I cut the rods off with a torch or sawa-all. Then with a 3" hole saw cut the top of the piston off. Now using the saws-all cut some slots in the skirt of the piston. Now you can take a chisel and break the piston up. This usually gouges up the cylinder pretty bad, but boring to 3 5/16 cleans this up. The last stuck piston I had the 50/50 Acetone/ATF worked fine after 3 days.

Flathead · 01-22-2011, 03:09 PM

I'd hate to cut up a useable 21A rod. Otherwise a good idea. A glaze-breaker cylinder hone will clean rust off cylinder wall above the piston.

bmodeltman · 01-22-2011, 07:30 PM

i got a couple modelt pistons out using a h puller.soak it down with pb blaster and put a piece of steel on top of piston.mount h puller on two head bolt holes and push piston down.if it don`t move we put pressure on it and let it sit going back every now and then and tighten the puller.eventually they loosen enough to get them out.

01-20-2011, 08:45 PM	#1
51merc Junior Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: south Mississippi Posts: 23	flathead tear down progress still haven't been able to get it to rotate, even after PB Blasting the cylinders; went ahead and dropped the pan(appears to be a ford crank).gonna remove the oil pump and was considering going ahead and removing the crankshaft; if i remove the bottom part of the connecting rod bearing clamps, and the three main bearing caps from the crank itself, shouldn't the crank drop out? i'm hoping this might enable me to get those pistons to move a little bit. thanks in advance

01-20-2011, 08:49 PM	#2
Jack E/NJ Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 2,260	Re: flathead tear down progress Might be stuck valves your dealing with. Jack E/NJ

01-20-2011, 09:26 PM	#3
51merc Junior Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: south Mississippi Posts: 23	Re: flathead tear down progress probably should've just kept the original thread going as to not confuse. jack, i've already got the valve assemblies out, as well as the cam.

01-20-2011, 09:28 PM	#4
Flathead Fever Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Yucaipa, CA Posts: 1,360	Re: flathead tear down progress You could try and remove the cam gear and see if it will rotate, that way you will know if it is stuck valves or pistons. I had one engine that was stuck so bad I had to break the pistons into little pieces to get them out.

01-20-2011, 09:38 PM	#5
wiretwister Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Missouri west of St. Louis Posts: 45	Re: flathead tear down progress Just finished a 50 teardown. Stuck pistons are a real pain in the butt. I tried to take out the crankshaft so I could get a better hammer swing to the pistons. The crank will not come out with just the rod caps and main caps removed. The angle of the cylinders puts the rods close together so there is not room to get the crank out without sliding the pistons and rod up. If they are stuck you can't move them. I finally got several long pieces of old oak lumber and after soaking for more than a month was able to beat the pistons up enough to get the crank out. Like the frog said "DON'T EVER GIVE UP". bill

01-20-2011, 10:42 PM	#6
Straightpipes Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Ballston Spa, NY Posts: 789	Re: flathead tear down progress Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) I'd leave the main caps on and remove the pistons. You can't get the crank out without removing the rods and pistons. I've used a hole saw to cut the heads off the pistons. Then break them out.

01-20-2011, 11:39 PM	#7
Ol' Ron Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Chester Vt Posts: 8,985	Re: flathead tear down progress Removing the cam gear is a good idea. Try 50/50 mix for several days. Crank will not come out with rods in place. Last but not least, "Slow down, you'll get done sooner" Keep the rod caps together.

01-20-2011, 11:48 PM	#8
51merc Junior Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: south Mississippi Posts: 23	Re: flathead tear down progress took the rod caps off, along with the main caps, only had one piston stuck so bad it wouldn't come out, even with a little coaxing with the ole BFH. gonna soak that one for a while. crank came right on out, after turning it a bit to get the rods to clear the cylinders. thanks guys, i'm going to bed now....

01-21-2011, 12:01 AM	#9
Mr 42 Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Sweden Posts: 427	Re: flathead tear down progress This is how i did one of mine. Without breaking the pistons. http://www.brandow.eu//album/59abII/index.html

01-21-2011, 09:45 AM	#11
Ol' Ron Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Chester Vt Posts: 8,985	Re: flathead tear down progress You might want to avoid using the BFH on the pistons, I cracked a cy;inder wall doing that.

01-21-2011, 11:31 AM	#12
Mr 42 Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Sweden Posts: 427	Re: flathead tear down progress When i used my big Cresentwrench and BFH it put all force on the piston wrist pin instead of the piston itself. And i think ist better to add the kerosene from the backside/underside of the piston, Or if you have patience from both sides.

01-21-2011, 12:06 PM	#13
Mart Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Solihull, England. Posts: 9,088	Re: flathead tear down progress I did a similar job recently on a scrap 21 stud motor. I had stuck pistons. I got the crank out by wiggling it past the rods. I then got a long punch up against the base of the piston crown, where it's thick and with a couple of good hard knocks, broke the heads clean off the pistons. Once the head was gone, the rod and remnants of the pistons came out quite easily. Didn't take a pic during the process, but here are the rods and remnants after removal. Mart.

01-21-2011, 12:44 PM	#14
Jack E/NJ Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 2,260	Re: flathead tear down progress Mart, that's one ugly pix you got there. I don't think I could bring myself to do it even on a "scrap motor". I'd rather do the old trick of letting the motor rest on a breaker bar on the crank nut, keep lubing the cylinders every few days until you see the block starting to move down from the gravitational pull of the world. Might take a week or maybe even a month. But eventually gravity will do its thing without having to resort to such violence. 8^) Jack E/NJ

01-21-2011, 02:00 PM	#15
FlatheadTed Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Auckland Posts: 4,745	Re: flathead tear down progress If there's a build up of heavy rust on the top of the pistons there's no way they will force past the rust , forget the Kero /oil ,The rust needs to be removed ,The best thing for that is soak it in Vinegar for at least two weeks, __________________ http://www.flatheadted.com Flathead Ted brake Floaters ,

01-21-2011, 07:57 PM	#16
40fordpu Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Murrieta, CA Posts: 637	Re: flathead tear down progress As an amateur, I used ford barn for advice. The guys recommended every substance under the sun to try and free up a stuck piston. Nothing worked!!! Not even the lumber or hitting the head of the piston...nothing. The ONLY way to get a really stuck head out is to collapse the center of the piston head. Be careful not to hit the rod, but DRILL 4 to 5 holes around the outside of the head, dont hit the wall of the cylinder. Use a bit just smaller than your pinky. Then hit the piston right in the middle. The piston middle collapses the walls of the piston free from the cylinder wall. I wasted 1 month trying to soak it. Took me 15 mins to drill and get loose. Chances are if the piston is stuck, the motor needs some cleaning and probably new pistons. Good luck.

01-21-2011, 08:51 PM	#17
Jack E/NJ Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 2,260	Re: flathead tear down progress 40forpu wrote:>>>I wasted 1 month trying to soak it.>>> Shoulda given it 2 months, then. 8^) Jack E/NJ

01-21-2011, 11:15 PM	#18
Ol' Ron Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Chester Vt Posts: 8,985	Re: flathead tear down progress For the real bad rusted in pistons I cut the rods off with a torch or sawa-all. Then with a 3" hole saw cut the top of the piston off. Now using the saws-all cut some slots in the skirt of the piston. Now you can take a chisel and break the piston up. This usually gouges up the cylinder pretty bad, but boring to 3 5/16 cleans this up. The last stuck piston I had the 50/50 Acetone/ATF worked fine after 3 days.

01-22-2011, 03:09 PM	#19
Flathead Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Southern Maine Posts: 1,617	Re: flathead tear down progress I'd hate to cut up a useable 21A rod. Otherwise a good idea. A glaze-breaker cylinder hone will clean rust off cylinder wall above the piston.

01-22-2011, 07:30 PM	#20
bmodeltman Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 33	Re: flathead tear down progress i got a couple modelt pistons out using a h puller.soak it down with pb blaster and put a piece of steel on top of piston.mount h puller on two head bolt holes and push piston down.if it don`t move we put pressure on it and let it sit going back every now and then and tighten the puller.eventually they loosen enough to get them out.