The Ford Barn

zoegrant · 04-20-2018, 07:35 PM

My car is a 36 with a 59 A/B engine that appears to be a 1947-48.
Can I use a new style starter drive or am I regulated to use the old style ?
The reason I ask is that the starter repair shop changed my starter drive to a new modern style and when I installed the starter the starter instantly bogged down and could not turn the flywheel.
I removed the starter and it bench tested good.The drive did exactly as it should.
Can one install the drive improperly ?
Why or what would cause a starter to bog down like this ?

Tinker · 04-20-2018, 08:11 PM

Sounds like you have something else going on. I might suggest that you start your own engine thread and keep it in one thread. Better then bits and pieces all over the place. The smart guys here, which is not me, will be better able to help you as a whole. Bit by bit and scattered everywhere is tough for anyone.

Just a thought. Plus pictures are nice on a thread.

JSeery · 04-20-2018, 08:23 PM

Can you post a photo of the starter drive?

drolston · 04-20-2018, 08:26 PM

I switched to the new bullet shape starter drive after having an inferior quality reproduction of the old spring type drive break after less than a year of infrequent use. The new one has worked flawlessly for three years since then. Be sure your battery is up to snuff and that you have very good ground path to the starter. If there is any paint or crud between the starter and the bell housing mount, that can cause your problem.

JSeery · 04-20-2018, 08:40 PM

So to be sure we at talking the same thing, is this similar to the Bendix you are referring to?

zoegrant · 04-20-2018, 09:00 PM

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

JSeery...yes your picture represents the exact style of the new one I had put on my starter...

zoegrant · 04-20-2018, 09:13 PM

Drolston...starter mounted flush to bell housing..all surfaces clean....battery fully charged and all grounds clean and tight...
When I tried the starter after installing ...it turned the flywheel 1/2 turn before stopping completely. I did take a measurements of the starter drive and the bell housing to make sure that the gear on the starter drive lined up to where it should when mating up with the ring gear....all looks good.
I will install the starter again tomorrow to see if it will work before I go back to the starter builder.

Tinker · 04-20-2018, 09:18 PM

what does the engine look like? have you pulled the pan or heads?

Bob C · 04-20-2018, 09:39 PM

Have you taken any voltage or amperage readings on starter?

Bob

zoegrant · 04-20-2018, 09:40 PM

Tinker...Have not torn into the engine at all...no pulling of any mechanical parts. With plugs out I can turn over the engine easily with a wrench on the crank bolt...
Not sure what you mean when you say what does the engine look like. It is a stock 59 A/B flathead from 47-48. The car itself is a 36.

zoegrant · 04-20-2018, 09:42 PM

Bob...I have not taken any amp or voltage readings on the new rebuilt starter.

Tinker · 04-20-2018, 09:51 PM

...

zoegrant · 04-20-2018, 10:09 PM

Tinker...how would I take a compression reading if I cannot start the engine ?
The engine I have is a 1947-48 flathead 59 A/B
The buiilder has 45 years experience and comes hightly recommended but who knows for sure.
I do trust him though.
I will talk to the builder tomorrow and report back what he said...

Tinker · 04-20-2018, 10:14 PM

...

4t8v8 · 04-20-2018, 10:25 PM

At the back end of the starter there is a small bracket that goes to the block and holds the starter in line. Do you have it installed? Just a thought. I've had excellent results with this drive on my 8BA.

Tinker · 04-20-2018, 10:32 PM

...

zoegrant · 04-21-2018, 06:21 AM

4T8V8...good thought on the bracket but I did have it installed when I put the starter back on....
On one of my post (#7) I stated that I took measurements to insure that the starter drive gear has enough room to engage properly with the flywheel and it does but what if this new type of starter gear does not have the same tooth pattern as the old one, causing the gear to bind up when meshing with the flywheel ?
WERE THERE DIFFERENT FLYWHEELS USED ON A FLATHEAD ?
The car is a 36 and the engine is 47-48. Could the previous owner have used the old 36 flywheel on this 47-48 engine and the tooth count or pattern is different causing the bind up with this new type of starter drive whereas it worked with the old type of starter drive ?

George/Maine · 04-21-2018, 06:33 AM

There are starter drives for 6 cylinders and 8 both new and old. Friend had wrong one.

zoegrant · 04-21-2018, 07:28 AM

George...any way I can tell which I have 6 or 8 cylinder starter drive ?

chap52 · 04-21-2018, 07:34 AM

I had a problem with my engine not turning over and found it to be the ring gear on the flywheel had slipped and was wedging against the block.
Remove spark plugs, Take a large socket (I believe 15/16) and a breaker bar, put it on the crank pulley nut on the front of the engine and try to rotate it "clockwise". If it won't move, pull the starter and try again.
The ring gear can be tapped back into place with a large punch through the starter hole, or easier if the plate is removed. You may be able to feel if it is flush with the flywheel.
If this is the problem this will only be a temporary fix and you will be replacing that ring gear in the near future., Chap

04-20-2018, 07:35 PM	#1
zoegrant Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: tolland CT Posts: 773	Starter drive or bendix My car is a 36 with a 59 A/B engine that appears to be a 1947-48. Can I use a new style starter drive or am I regulated to use the old style ? The reason I ask is that the starter repair shop changed my starter drive to a new modern style and when I installed the starter the starter instantly bogged down and could not turn the flywheel. I removed the starter and it bench tested good.The drive did exactly as it should. Can one install the drive improperly ? Why or what would cause a starter to bog down like this ?

04-20-2018, 08:11 PM	#2
Tinker Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: MN Posts: 7,063	Re: Starter drive or bendix Sounds like you have something else going on. I might suggest that you start your own engine thread and keep it in one thread. Better then bits and pieces all over the place. The smart guys here, which is not me, will be better able to help you as a whole. Bit by bit and scattered everywhere is tough for anyone. Just a thought. Plus pictures are nice on a thread.

04-20-2018, 08:23 PM	#3
JSeery Member Emeritus Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: Wichita KS Posts: 16,132	Re: Starter drive or bendix Can you post a photo of the starter drive?

04-20-2018, 08:26 PM	#4
drolston Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2014 Location: Williamsburg, VA Posts: 1,811	Re: Starter drive or bendix I switched to the new bullet shape starter drive after having an inferior quality reproduction of the old spring type drive break after less than a year of infrequent use. The new one has worked flawlessly for three years since then. Be sure your battery is up to snuff and that you have very good ground path to the starter. If there is any paint or crud between the starter and the bell housing mount, that can cause your problem.

04-20-2018, 09:00 PM	#6
zoegrant Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: tolland CT Posts: 773	Re: Starter drive or bendix Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) JSeery...yes your picture represents the exact style of the new one I had put on my starter...

04-20-2018, 09:13 PM	#7
zoegrant Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: tolland CT Posts: 773	Re: Starter drive or bendix Drolston...starter mounted flush to bell housing..all surfaces clean....battery fully charged and all grounds clean and tight... When I tried the starter after installing ...it turned the flywheel 1/2 turn before stopping completely. I did take a measurements of the starter drive and the bell housing to make sure that the gear on the starter drive lined up to where it should when mating up with the ring gear....all looks good. I will install the starter again tomorrow to see if it will work before I go back to the starter builder.

04-20-2018, 09:18 PM	#8
Tinker Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: MN Posts: 7,063	Re: Starter drive or bendix what does the engine look like? have you pulled the pan or heads?

04-20-2018, 09:39 PM	#9
Bob C Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: So Cal Posts: 9,360	Re: Starter drive or bendix Have you taken any voltage or amperage readings on starter? Bob

04-20-2018, 09:40 PM	#10
zoegrant Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: tolland CT Posts: 773	Re: Starter drive or bendix Tinker...Have not torn into the engine at all...no pulling of any mechanical parts. With plugs out I can turn over the engine easily with a wrench on the crank bolt... Not sure what you mean when you say what does the engine look like. It is a stock 59 A/B flathead from 47-48. The car itself is a 36.

04-20-2018, 09:42 PM	#11
zoegrant Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: tolland CT Posts: 773	Re: Starter drive or bendix Bob...I have not taken any amp or voltage readings on the new rebuilt starter.

04-20-2018, 09:51 PM	#12
Tinker Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: MN Posts: 7,063	Re: Starter drive or bendix ... Last edited by Tinker; 04-21-2018 at 05:57 AM.

04-20-2018, 10:09 PM	#13
zoegrant Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: tolland CT Posts: 773	Re: Starter drive or bendix Tinker...how would I take a compression reading if I cannot start the engine ? The engine I have is a 1947-48 flathead 59 A/B The buiilder has 45 years experience and comes hightly recommended but who knows for sure. I do trust him though. I will talk to the builder tomorrow and report back what he said...

04-20-2018, 10:14 PM	#14
Tinker Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: MN Posts: 7,063	Re: Starter drive or bendix ... Last edited by Tinker; 04-21-2018 at 05:57 AM.

04-20-2018, 10:25 PM	#15
4t8v8 Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: NW Arkansas Posts: 526	Re: Starter drive or bendix At the back end of the starter there is a small bracket that goes to the block and holds the starter in line. Do you have it installed? Just a thought. I've had excellent results with this drive on my 8BA.

04-20-2018, 10:32 PM	#16
Tinker Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: MN Posts: 7,063	Re: Starter drive or bendix ... Last edited by Tinker; 04-21-2018 at 05:57 AM.

04-21-2018, 06:21 AM	#17
zoegrant Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: tolland CT Posts: 773	Re: Starter drive or bendix 4T8V8...good thought on the bracket but I did have it installed when I put the starter back on.... On one of my post (#7) I stated that I took measurements to insure that the starter drive gear has enough room to engage properly with the flywheel and it does but what if this new type of starter gear does not have the same tooth pattern as the old one, causing the gear to bind up when meshing with the flywheel ? WERE THERE DIFFERENT FLYWHEELS USED ON A FLATHEAD ? The car is a 36 and the engine is 47-48. Could the previous owner have used the old 36 flywheel on this 47-48 engine and the tooth count or pattern is different causing the bind up with this new type of starter drive whereas it worked with the old type of starter drive ?

04-21-2018, 06:33 AM	#18
George/Maine Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Mid coast Maine Posts: 1,878	Re: Starter drive or bendix There are starter drives for 6 cylinders and 8 both new and old. Friend had wrong one.

04-21-2018, 07:28 AM	#19
zoegrant Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: tolland CT Posts: 773	Re: Starter drive or bendix George...any way I can tell which I have 6 or 8 cylinder starter drive ?

04-21-2018, 07:34 AM	#20
chap52 Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: Marana Arizona Posts: 1,829	Re: Starter drive or bendix I had a problem with my engine not turning over and found it to be the ring gear on the flywheel had slipped and was wedging against the block. Remove spark plugs, Take a large socket (I believe 15/16) and a breaker bar, put it on the crank pulley nut on the front of the engine and try to rotate it "clockwise". If it won't move, pull the starter and try again. The ring gear can be tapped back into place with a large punch through the starter hole, or easier if the plate is removed. You may be able to feel if it is flush with the flywheel. If this is the problem this will only be a temporary fix and you will be replacing that ring gear in the near future., Chap