winfield alloy head problem pos

[quickchange]

I have an on going problem with an engine , Details perchased this engine rebuilt with out a head, I put a winfield repop alloy head on it. lighter flywheel, V8 clutch, has mild cam & larger intakes, Engine ran real good but was harsh over 45mph & noisy, removed & stripped to get rebalance, found 4thou bent crank ??? straightened it to with in 1/2 thou. ran it another 200 miles, still harsh & not smooth, Sent to another pro rebuilder with another crank, they ground new crank , counter weight it, fitted cam bearings, new lifters , rings etc re checked valves & had balanced, We ran another1000 miles on still harsh, & not smoth. almost feels out of balance, Pulled out for the 5th time send moving parts to a balancer & they found very little wrong, So now i have replaced everything including my wallet. only thing not touched since day one is the repop head, engine is 100 thou over, 55thou clearance piston to head on 100mile head gasket, About to change the head but can,t beleive thats the problem, over 45 mph its noisy in vehicle, feels out of balance & yes free wheeld down hill at 50 mph out of gear & no noise or vibrations in drive line, Question anyone had problem with these repo winfield heads , any help appreciated, have run it to 70mph & it hauls nice , just don,t feel right, Haveanother sv engine that pulls 5800 revs & feels smooth. Best XMAS wishes to all on this site Derek from a very warm dry NZ.

[d.j. moordigian]

QC,

Have you tried backing the timing up some? Should start over but, here we go.

1. what kind of dist.?
2. are you timing with a light?...how much?
3. compression ratio...7 to 1..?
4. what are the figures on the cam?

Dudley

[Larry Brumfield]

What do you mean exactly by noisy?

How many degrees advance on the timing?

[40 Deluxe]

Is the compression even on all cylinders? Have you cc'd the combustion chambers to see if they're equal? How does it feel when you rev it up in neutral? Piston and bearing clearances double-checked? Could the distributor shaft or lobes be worn so that the timing is way off between each cylinder? Maybe try that hill again, leaving it in gear and shutting off the ignition so that the engine is turning at road speed but not firing. This will distinguish between mechanical imbalance and an ignition/combustion roughness.

[Larry Brumfield]

Originally Posted by 40 Deluxe

Maybe try that hill again, leaving it in gear and shutting off the ignition so that the engine is turning at road speed but not firing.

Good way to blow up the muffler.

[J Franklin]

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Yesseree Larry that happens! Maybe he could shut the gas valve off a bit before he gets to the hill?

[Milton]

Is the engine noisy when the car is parked and running at the threshold (noisy) rpm? Was the flywheel checked for wobble? That can be done through the inspection cover in the bell housing. What can't be checked, without engine removal, is the flywheel housing run out. If the answer to my first question is yes, then start the engine out of the car before installing it next time.

[CWPASADENA]

It seems you have tried all the obvious stuff.

I will throw out some other stuff for your consideration.

Does the engine get noisey and run rough as you get up in RPM in ALL GEARS? I am thinking about U Joint or front Drive Shaft Bearing. Years ago, I ran across a simular situation to yours and found the Drive Shaft front bearing surface was badly worn. The engine was not so bad in the lower gears but in high, at road speed there was vibration and noise, especially when the engine was under load. I thought all the time it was engine but in this case it turned out to be Drive Shaft.

Coasting down a hill in netural may not detect this as the U Joint and drive shaft are not loaded.

Just an Idea,

Chris

[MikeK]

A sour dizzy can ruin your whole day. Have access to a distributor machine and an oscilloscope? A four banger should have the distributor fire every 90 degrees, 90-90-90-90. The last old used model a dizzy I played with showed 93-87-89-91 on a Sun machine with a scope. That'll make it run lumpy.

[quickchange]

Thanks for all sugestions, Stock dissy, Tried all of above, with 40 plus years of A,s from stock to hot . ( who else pulls 5800 rev in a flathead & it holds together)have some knowledge , (can,t spell) but know when an engine is off re spark, Best decription is it harsh not smooth, over 45mph , yes all balanced & had checked twice, Wounder if 65thou cold enough piston to head clearance is enough, how about pistons touching head gasket, its 100 over, valves touching head . ??? the latter is the next check, we have over 1000 miles on it so all rest checks out. I will advise when we sort it. Don,t you just love these old engines??keeps me er young?

[quickchange]

Forgot to mention all was fine on the original engine just that that one was down on power & had this NEW rebuilt one sitting there. comp even on each pot at 120lb,s,

[Larry Brumfield]

The reason I asked you what you meant by noisy is I didn't know if you meant detonation (spark knock), or metal hitting metal "clang-clang-clang" or what.

If pistons or valves are hitting there should be some visible signs.

On an engine with steel rods, tight bearings and pistons and modest RPM, .035" quench is the minimum practical to run without engine damage.

Unfortunately, the operating quench height varies in an engine as RPM and temperatures change.

So on an engine with aluminum rods, loose pistons and over 6000 RPM, a static clearance of as much as .055" could be required which of course does not apply to your Model A.

[quickchange]

Larry thanks, Im going to pull the head & inspect , I can make it pink with lots of advance, but understand hi comp needs less. This motor is not running over normal revs, there is no metalic noise , Harsh is the only way to describe, , More as it happens, Thanks.

[Kurt in NJ]

Having loose motor mount bolts will make for "harsh", also binding in the front mount.

Have you looked at the mount to frame pads --perhaps there is internal metal to metal contact --a bolt not surrounded by rubber.

[Sparky]

Is this your only engine with an aluminum head? Aluminum has inherently less vibration damping than cast iron, so you would expect the engine to be noisier.

[Larry Brumfield]

Originally Posted by Sparky

Is this your only engine with an aluminum head? Aluminum has inherently less vibration damping than cast iron, so you would expect the engine to be noisier.

True, but it shouldn't be so pronounced as to be irritating or completely rough to the senses.

[1931 flamingo]

Front crank pulley loose? Bad alt/gen brgs? No noise in neutral/coasting, possible tranny shaft/pilot brg alignment, u-joint? Loose motor mounts, cracked rear mounts? Just tossing these out for thought. Have you tried running engine on a test stand, out of car, if one is available? Good luck, let us know if you find problem, please.
Paul in CT

[just plain bill]

I have had NO problems with my repop Al Winfield head! See the results!

[quickchange]

Thanks for more suggestions, Nos gears in tranny, float a motors , which im going to inspect, Thing is no problem with orig engine , all happened when fitted the rebuilt engine so one would expect it to be the engine , yes flywheel housing all set up with dial guage, Head coming off today as last resort. Fuel just hit $2.02 per litre here ??? might need to convert to electric , Thanks all. there will be more.

[hardtimes]

Originally Posted by quickchange

Thanks for all sugestions, Stock dissy, Tried all of above, with 40 plus years of A,s from stock to hot . ( who else pulls 5800 rev in a flathead & it holds together)have some knowledge , (can,t spell) but know when an engine is off re spark, Best decription is it harsh not smooth, over 45mph , yes all balanced & had checked twice, Wounder if 65thou cold enough piston to head clearance is enough, how about pistons touching head gasket, its 100 over, valves touching head . ??? the latter is the next check, we have over 1000 miles on it so all rest checks out. I will advise when we sort it. Don,t you just love these old engines??keeps me er young?

Derek..that you?
"who else pulls 5800/holds together"...any of the fast boys!
You need a BIGGER wallet.... and an OHV setup