VIN Tag Stamping

[zippykb]

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

I own a '50 Coupe that was repainted in the late '60s. As a result, the original VIN tag on the firewall was damage from sanding and no longer contains any information other than the faint, but still present VIN. I purchased a reproduction tag (from a reputable company) that I need stamped and have been unsuccessful. Thank you for your time

[tubman]

Doing this is generally a bad idea that can land you in jail. Registration procedures vary by state. If you want us to help you besides advising against it, we have to know what state you're dealing with.

I don't know about 1950 Fords, but I believe my 1951 has the VIN on the firewall plate and on the frame.

[Charlie Stephens]

If you have a faint but still present VIN that is all you need. Stop while you are ahead.

Charlie Stephens

[cas3]

while i am not a 50 expert, isnt the aluminum tag on the fire wall just body and paint codes, and not the vin number? at any rate, with the correct stamps its done all the time on model A's, and especially model T's where the only vin is on the block, and many restorations find a bad block, so you mill it off and stamp your new block to match the title. yes, i know we are all supposed to be good boys, buts its done all the time. Harley davidsons are known to disappear too often, so i would advise against that sort of thing! but old fords? and you have a title? go for it. the correct stamps are for sale here in the classifieds, and on ebay.

[paul2748]

Both Grainger and McMaster-Carr have stamps in various sizes. Just get the correct size and do it yourself. If you do it with the correct info it shouldn't be a problem.

[51504bat]

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I bought an O/T MG some years ago. I had paperwork but the Vin was missing. The CHP did a Vin inspection/search which came up negative so they attached an assigned Vin and I was good to go. The year did not change but I had a legal Vin. Years later when I pulled the body off the frame and found a previously assigned Vin. My advice is check with your state DMV and follow their advice but DON'T try to recreate a Vin on your own. JMO.

[zippykb]

Here is a picture of the plate I am wanting to correct with the Ford Licensed Part sold by Dennis Carpenter. I am not trying to be dishonest in any means, I simply want to correct the plate on my '50. The Indiana State Police and BMV have both told me what I am doing is perfectly legal. I simply need to have the "new part" stamped.

[Joe Immler]

Well, If both BMV and ISP say it is OK I would go ahead and do it. It might be a good idea to get the OK in writing for the future. If someone in these units says later it is wrong they will win over your saying it was OK. I went through something similar over the use of vintage plates. The young officer was going to have the car towed. Showed him the paper work from DMV and he let me go.

[19Fordy]

According to the Van pelt site the 1950 Ford VIN # is stamped on the firewall.
http://www.vanpeltsales.com/FH_web/f...9VINdecode.htm

[toby]

Take it to a trophy shop and have them stamp the VIN# on it. Bring your original tag with so the shop can see the correct size of characters. Your title will have the VIN #.

[rotorwrench]

I don't see anything illegal about properly recreating an ID tag. I would advise to keep the old original tag with the cars records package. That way the accuracy can always be verified by any government registration agency. It should also match any stampings that might be on the car's frame.

The illegal part is when you try to change numbers in any way.

[Terry,OH]

Be careful when removing, any numbers stamped into the front of the plate MAY be able to be read from the reverse since the plate is thin.

[tubman]

Originally Posted by rotorwrench

I don't see anything illegal about properly recreating an ID tag. I would advise to keep the old original tag with the cars records package. That way the accuracy can always be verified by any government registration agency. It should also match any stampings that might be on the car's frame.

The illegal part is when you try to change numbers in any way.

Be careful with statements like this. Since Corvettes and muscle cars prices have risen to the stratospere, many states have enacted laws that make any kind of altering vehicle ID information illegal. That's why I asked the OP to specify which state he is located in. It does make a difference. Go with what the DMV or a reputable title service tells you. A lot of times, the former is misinformed and/or not interested in helping you. I had to go to three DMV offices in Minnesota before I found someone who knew what they were doing and was willing to help me. After that, it was easy.

[rotorwrench]

The key is "altering". There is a large legal precedence between simply repairing an article and altering something on that article. Tampering or altering are almost synonymous in this respect. Simply repairing something without altering or tampering with it can be justified as long as there is evidence to keep folks honest. I would take photos of the old plate and also the frame numbers. If a photo doesn't work on the frame, a simple pencil rubbing is generally acceptable for records of this kind of job.

Not all restoration shops get involved with the dark side of the hobby. Most are honest and forthright and keep good records to back up all that they do. Owners should keep this in mind if they are DIY guys and want to stay on the right side of the law.

[tubman]

Anyone who proceeds with this sort of thing without specific knowledge of the applicable state laws is asking for trouble. To offer anyone advice on something like this without even knowing where he is located is ill-advised.

[Angledrive]

Per Federal Law

(a) A person who—
(1) knowingly removes, obliterates, tampers with, or alters an identification number for a motor vehicle or motor vehicle part; or
(2) with intent to further the theft of a motor vehicle, knowingly removes, obliterates, tampers with, or alters a decal or device affixed to a motor vehicle pursuant to the Motor Vehicle Theft Prevention Act,
shall be fined under this title, imprisoned not more than 5 years, or both.
(b)
(1) Subsection (a) of this section does not apply to a removal, obliteration, tampering, or alteration by a person specified in paragraph (2) of this subsection (unless such person knows that the vehicle or part involved is stolen).
(2) The persons referred to in paragraph (1) of this subsection are—
(A) a motor vehicle scrap processor or a motor vehicle demolisher who complies with applicable State law with respect to such vehicle or part;
(B) a person who repairs such vehicle or part, if the removal, obliteration, tampering, or alteration is reasonably necessary for the repair;
(C) a person who restores or replaces an identification number for such vehicle or part in accordance with applicable State law; and
(D) a person who removes, obliterates, tampers with, or alters a decal or device affixed to a motor vehicle pursuant to the Motor Vehicle Theft Prevention Act, if that person is the owner of the motor vehicle, or is authorized to remove, obliterate, tamper with or alter the decal or device by—
(i) the owner or his authorized agent;
(ii) applicable State or local law; or
(iii) regulations promulgated by the Attorney General to implement the Motor Vehicle Theft Prevention Act.
(c) As used in this section, the term—
(1) “identification number” means a number or symbol that is inscribed or affixed for purposes of identification under chapter 301 and part C of subtitle VI of title 49;
(2) “motor vehicle” has the meaning given that term in section 32101 of title 49;
(3) “motor vehicle demolisher” means a person, including any motor vehicle dismantler or motor vehicle recycler, who is engaged in the business of reducing motor vehicles or motor vehicle parts to metallic scrap that is unsuitable for use as either a motor vehicle or a motor vehicle part;
(4) “motor vehicle scrap processor” means a person—
(A) who is engaged in the business of purchasing motor vehicles or motor vehicle parts for reduction to metallic scrap for recycling;
(B) who, from a fixed location, uses machinery to process metallic scrap into prepared grades; and
(C) whose principal product is metallic scrap for recycling;
but such term does not include any activity of any such person relating to the recycling of a motor vehicle or a motor vehicle part as a used motor vehicle or a used motor vehicle part.
(d) For purposes of subsection (a) of this section, the term “tampers with” includes covering a program decal or device affixed to a motor vehicle pursuant to the Motor Vehicle Theft Prevention Act for the purpose of obstructing its visibility.
(Added Pub. L. 98–547, title II, § 201(a), Oct. 25, 1984, 98 Stat. 2768; amended Pub. L. 103–272, § 5(e)(3), July 5, 1994, 108 Stat. 1373; Pub. L. 103–322, title XXII, § 220003(a)–(c), Sept. 13, 1994, 108 Stat. 2076, 2077; Pub. L. 104–294, title VI, § 604(b)(8), Oct. 11, 1996, 110 Stat. 3507.)

[36coupe]

For a ford I would restamp it and keep the old one. I was told that scraping the paint off a frame vin number on a Harley stateside was considered 'altering a vin'.
(they never started vins on frames til 1970)

[glennsanders]

Midwest early Ford stamps vin plates,it's not against the law for them to stamp them it's against the law for you to put it on your vehicle .But if the old is worn out and you would like to put a new in its place .It's done every day.

[1931 flamingo]

I'm sure the VIN police are following this thread with great interest.....................NOT
Methinks the police have better things to do. I wouldn't worry about it as long as you've got the right paperwork.
JMO
Paul in CT

[tubman]

Ooops, sorry. I missed the OP's second post aboit the Indiana BMV and state police. Still my general advice still stands.