The Ford Barn

Mike/Nebraska · 08-13-2012, 02:28 PM

I have a Snyder's 5.5. head on my Model A and I'm having problems with water in the oil. I took it apart the last time and I had to loc-tite the studs again and I torqued it down and retorqued it down and this week we had a parade and I noticed a little leak and it was milky. So now I'm thinking of having my son mill the head a so I know it's straight. How far can I go?

J Franklin · 08-13-2012, 02:47 PM

Mike, you don't need to mill the head to know it is flat, just use a metal straight edge and look for gaps. explain locktite on the studs, I don't know what you were trying to accomplish with that.

Mike/Nebraska · 08-13-2012, 04:29 PM

the reason for loctite on the studs was I had two or three that loosened up, so I used it on the threads that were in the block and the reason for milling was to up the compression a little more and to make sure the head was flat.

BRENT in 10-uh-C · 08-13-2012, 04:29 PM

I have successfully had them milled .060" without creating any issues, so IMHO if you had it cut .010, that will more than take care of leveling the surface. It sounds like a can of sodium silicate might be a better cure for your weeping head studs.

Terry, NJ · 08-13-2012, 04:57 PM

Heads are not generally "Milled" on a milling machine. They are ground on a special grinder. I know, I know, They call it "Milling" but it's actually grinding.
Terry

V4F · 08-13-2012, 04:58 PM

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

ditto , .060 brings it up near 6-1 . i did mine & no troubles ......

1931 flamingo · 08-13-2012, 05:45 PM

Hopefully you didn't "chase" the head stud holes with a regular tap.
Paul in CT

James Rogers · 08-13-2012, 05:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Terry, NJ

Heads are not generally "Milled" on a milling machine. They are ground on a special grinder. I know, I know, They call it "Milling" but it's actually grinding.
Terry

Terry, I call it milling but I use a Van Norman 570 broach. The broach cut is the way the block was done at the factory. Grinding a block or head to a smooth surface is not the way to go. The slight marking the broach makes help to hold the copper sandwich gasket in place. Still milling however it's done.

BTW, I have sold many 5.5 heads milled .060 and nobody has ever complained.

Hiker · 09-12-2015, 07:48 AM

Hello, I'm a first-timer to the Ford Barn. I have a question and this seems to be the thread to put it in; Les Andrews said in Vol II that the Snyder 5.5 head can be milled down ".080 to .125 by a local machine shop". Has any one gone further than .060"?

Marshall V. Daut · 09-12-2015, 08:26 AM

Did you use new studs and nuts? I learned the hard way in the early 1990's the first time I installed a Brumfield head that new studs and nuts must be used because ones that have been used even once will stretch slightly. This is especially true of older studs that have a "Mae West" slimming effect somewhere along the shank. As you torque the nuts, the studs stretch imperceptibly and you lose torque values = leaking head gasket. Good quality studs and nuts are available through most vendors and although they cost twice as much as the standard ones, they're worth it if you save even one head gasket from leaking or blowing out.
As others have said, though, check for flatness with a metal precision level, not a wooden yardstick or the like. If you find the head within acceptable tolerances, it just might be the studs and nuts at fault.
Marshall

jhowes · 09-12-2015, 08:30 AM

Brent, What is sodium silicate? Where do you get it? Jack

Jim Baskin III Pa. · 09-12-2015, 08:37 AM

Schwalms milled .070 off my 5.5 Snyders head.Have had no problems,but it sure makes for a strong motor.

Mitch//pa · 09-12-2015, 08:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jhowes

Brent, What is sodium silicate? Where do you get it? Jack

Do a google search
You'll find out everything you need to know

J and M Machine · 09-12-2015, 09:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike/Nebraska

I have a Snyder's 5.5. head on my Model A and I'm having problems with water in the oil. I took it apart the last time and I had to loc-tite the studs again and I torqued it down and retorqued it down and this week we had a parade and I noticed a little leak and it was milky. So now I'm thinking of having my son mill the head a so I know it's straight. How far can I go?

Mike:
You only need to remove enough to make it straight.
Typically .010" will make it straight.
I have sprayed new unused head with layout dye to show the twist in the head ,probably what you're experiencing.
Pictures show first roughing pass about .005" still warped then final finsh at .010" making it usable.
We also machine the stud bosses to get proper engagement of the head nuts.

Hiker · 09-12-2015, 09:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim Baskin III Pa.

Schwalms milled .070 off my 5.5 Snyders head.Have had no problems,but it sure makes for a strong motor.

Jim; What is your impression (review) of Schwalms?

hardtimes · 09-12-2015, 12:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by J and M Machine

Mike:
You only need to remove enough to make it straight.
Typically .010" will make it straight.
I have sprayed new unused head with layout dye to show the twist in the head ,probably what you're experiencing.
Pictures show first roughing pass about .005" still warped then final finsh at .010" making it usable.
We also machine the stud bosses to get proper engagement of the head nuts.

Hey J&M,
Thanks for your great input and explanatory pictures

!
Can you say/explain why any head comes to market with 'twist'. And, does this twist condition come over the head....after it is initially 'correctly' milled, or is it a condition of poor initial milling

Hiker · 09-12-2015, 05:08 PM

Most likely, the casting had not stabilized before it was finish milled for sale. Did you ever buy a set of rotors, only to find they "warped" a few months later? Same thing.

J and M Machine · 09-12-2015, 06:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hardtimes

Hey J&M,
Thanks for your great input and explanatory pictures

!
Can you say/explain why any head comes to market with 'twist'. And, does this twist condition come over the head....after it is initially 'correctly' milled, or is it a condition of poor initial milling

You'll have to ask this question to the maker of the heads.

Mitch//pa · 09-12-2015, 06:49 PM

i would like to know the reason of why they are not flat. i certainly never expected to have to skim a new head and maybe thats why i have had some issues with leaks... when i purchase a new head for any car old or modern i expect it to be 100 percent true out of the box...

tbirdtbird · 09-12-2015, 07:01 PM

my experience they seldom are

08-13-2012, 02:28 PM	#1
Mike/Nebraska Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Eastern, Nebraska Posts: 354	Milling a Snyder's head I have a Snyder's 5.5. head on my Model A and I'm having problems with water in the oil. I took it apart the last time and I had to loc-tite the studs again and I torqued it down and retorqued it down and this week we had a parade and I noticed a little leak and it was milky. So now I'm thinking of having my son mill the head a so I know it's straight. How far can I go?

08-13-2012, 02:47 PM	#2
J Franklin Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Oregon Posts: 6,370	Re: Milling a Snyder's head Mike, you don't need to mill the head to know it is flat, just use a metal straight edge and look for gaps. explain locktite on the studs, I don't know what you were trying to accomplish with that.

08-13-2012, 04:29 PM	#3
Mike/Nebraska Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Eastern, Nebraska Posts: 354	Re: Milling a Snyder's head the reason for loctite on the studs was I had two or three that loosened up, so I used it on the threads that were in the block and the reason for milling was to up the compression a little more and to make sure the head was flat.

08-13-2012, 04:29 PM	#4
BRENT in 10-uh-C Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Eastern Tennessee Posts: 11,972	Re: Milling a Snyder's head I have successfully had them milled .060" without creating any issues, so IMHO if you had it cut .010, that will more than take care of leveling the surface. It sounds like a can of sodium silicate might be a better cure for your weeping head studs. __________________ . BRENT in 10-uh-C . www.model-a-ford.com ...(...Finally Updated!! ) .

08-13-2012, 04:57 PM	#5
Terry, NJ Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Bucks Co, Pa Posts: 3,749	Re: Milling a Snyder's head Heads are not generally "Milled" on a milling machine. They are ground on a special grinder. I know, I know, They call it "Milling" but it's actually grinding. Terry

08-13-2012, 04:58 PM	#6
V4F Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: ca. Posts: 2,524	Re: Milling a Snyder's head Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) ditto , .060 brings it up near 6-1 . i did mine & no troubles ...... __________________ V4f

08-13-2012, 05:45 PM	#7
1931 flamingo Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: new britain,ct 06052 Posts: 9,428	Re: Milling a Snyder's head Hopefully you didn't "chase" the head stud holes with a regular tap. Paul in CT

09-12-2015, 07:48 AM	#9
Hiker Junior Member Join Date: Sep 2015 Posts: 14	Re: Milling a Snyder's head Hello, I'm a first-timer to the Ford Barn. I have a question and this seems to be the thread to put it in; Les Andrews said in Vol II that the Snyder 5.5 head can be milled down ".080 to .125 by a local machine shop". Has any one gone further than .060"?

09-12-2015, 08:26 AM	#10
Marshall V. Daut Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Davenport, Iowa Posts: 2,627	Re: Milling a Snyder's head Did you use new studs and nuts? I learned the hard way in the early 1990's the first time I installed a Brumfield head that new studs and nuts must be used because ones that have been used even once will stretch slightly. This is especially true of older studs that have a "Mae West" slimming effect somewhere along the shank. As you torque the nuts, the studs stretch imperceptibly and you lose torque values = leaking head gasket. Good quality studs and nuts are available through most vendors and although they cost twice as much as the standard ones, they're worth it if you save even one head gasket from leaking or blowing out. As others have said, though, check for flatness with a metal precision level, not a wooden yardstick or the like. If you find the head within acceptable tolerances, it just might be the studs and nuts at fault. Marshall Last edited by Marshall V. Daut; 09-12-2015 at 08:27 AM. Reason: eliminated unnecessary period

09-12-2015, 08:30 AM	#11
jhowes Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: upstate NY near Mass border Posts: 789	Re: Milling a Snyder's head Brent, What is sodium silicate? Where do you get it? Jack

09-12-2015, 08:37 AM	#12
Jim Baskin III Pa. Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Lock Haven Pa. Posts: 252	Re: Milling a Snyder's head Schwalms milled .070 off my 5.5 Snyders head.Have had no problems,but it sure makes for a strong motor.

09-12-2015, 05:08 PM	#17
Hiker Junior Member Join Date: Sep 2015 Posts: 14	Re: Milling a Snyder's head Most likely, the casting had not stabilized before it was finish milled for sale. Did you ever buy a set of rotors, only to find they "warped" a few months later? Same thing.

09-12-2015, 06:49 PM	#19
Mitch//pa BANNED Join Date: May 2010 Location: Bucks County, PA Posts: 11,454	Re: Milling a Snyder's head i would like to know the reason of why they are not flat. i certainly never expected to have to skim a new head and maybe thats why i have had some issues with leaks... when i purchase a new head for any car old or modern i expect it to be 100 percent true out of the box...

09-12-2015, 07:01 PM	#20
tbirdtbird BANNED Join Date: May 2012 Location: inside your RAM Posts: 3,134	Re: Milling a Snyder's head my experience they seldom are __________________ '31 180A