The Ford Barn

Binger · 10-09-2016, 09:18 AM

Hello all. I was digging around the garage and found some used Spark plugs and had a question about them. I found some Champion 2COM and 3COM Plugs. All I could find online about them is that they are equivalent to the Autolite 3076 I have been running in my coupe. I was wondering if anybody has had any luck running them in their car. Which one is hotter? I found six of the 3COM which leads me to believe they came out of my 1922 Buick many years ago and I found 4 of the 2COM which makes me think they once lived in an A. I like the old look of these plugs better than the modern looking autolites I am currently running. My car has a stock A engine with a single Stromburg 97, a tube header and a newer Mallory dual point in it. I am also at 6000' elevation. Has anybody had any luck with any of these plugs? Thanks in advance.

John

RonC · 10-09-2016, 12:13 PM

The correct production plugs were champion 3X which are still available.

Binger · 10-09-2016, 04:16 PM

I understand the 3X are available but they are expensive. I was just wondering how the plugs I found compare to the 3X or the Autolite ones I am currently running. I will clean them up and give them a try. I was hoping someone would shed some light on how those might work. Mostly wondering about their heat range. I don't know how champion labels their plugs. Is the 3COM Hotter than the 2COM? How does the 3X differ from the 3COM?

Gunmetal blue2 · 10-09-2016, 07:53 PM

last I checked that O'Reilly Auto Parts Store have 3X Champion Spark Plugs for $19.95 ec.

ursus · 10-09-2016, 08:05 PM

The Champion 2COM is close in heat range to the Champion 3X, at least that was my experience with a set that came with my car. I never did understand what Champion had in mind with 0COM, 1COM, 2COM and 3COM series of plugs or what vehicles they were intended for.

Mike V. Florida · 10-09-2016, 10:09 PM

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

Model A spark plug heat ranges
Champion W18 = close to original 3X
Depending on your driving habits, etc., a cooler plug may be the one for you:
Champion W-14 (cooler than W-18)
Champion W-10 (cooler than W-14)
Motorcraft TT-10 (same as W-14)
Autolite 3076 (same as W-14 and TT-10)
Also Champion W16Y which some people will argue that it's cooler than Champion W-18 but hotter than W-14 as the numbers would suggest. On the other hand, for years and listed as such on their official heat range chart, the engineers at Champion proclaimed that the Y means projected nose (which it is, you can tell by looking at it) and for this reason it is supposed to run hotter at slower speeds.
Conduct a proper heat range test as follows to see what is needed for your car and how you drive:
Drive around for at least 30 minutes to allow engine heat to build and then drive out someplace where you can run the car at a sustained speed on a straight road for a few miles without having to slow down or stop, very important.
Run the car up to the maximum speed in high gear that you would typically drive if you decided to drive fast and I don't mean dangerously high speed.
Hold the car at that sustained speed and without letting off the throttle, reach over and turn off the ignition. Let off the throttle, push in the clutch quickly and coast over to the side of the road. Open the hood and allow the engine to cool off a bit (allow to cool off completely if running an aluminum head).
Remove the spark plugs and examine the color and condition of the electrodes and insulators. The color will be a true indication of how hot or cold the plugs are running. But remember ... during the test if you let the engine slow down or let it idle and then check the plugs you will have changed the effects and not get a true indication. I've seen many a person let an engine idle, check the plugs and then claim they were just right only to discover later that the plug heat range was too hot.
It they are white, the plug is too hot. Go to a colder plug.
If they are black, they are too cold. Go to a hotter plug.
If they are a shade of tan, they are just about right.
Also understand that all this is not set in stone. A person who putts around at say, 35 or 40 MPH and never faster may need a hotter plug. The lower the combustion chamber temperature the hotter the plug should be. On the other hand, as conditions cause the combustion chamber temperature to rise, a colder plug may be necessary. You just don't want the plugs to be sooty black and foul out which means they're too cold or chalky white which means they're too hot. You want the plugs to be somewhere in between like light brown to grayish tan. However, slightly white may not be too bad unless it is "chalky white."
Keep in mind that the plug descriptions are for engines in good condition, correct carb mixture, good hot ignition, etc., etc.. One with bad rings for example can cause oil to get on a correct heat range plug and foul it out (short to ground down the side of the center electrode) where it won't fire. It will be black and oily.
On the other hand, a plug that is running too hot will turn chalky white or bright white. This can reduce the life of the plug or even cause the electrode to burn up. A plug can also get hot enough to glow which can ignite the mixture before the spark occurs (pre-ignition). This can be bad news... During pre-ignition the temperature inside the combustion chambers can reach WELDING temperatures in just a few seconds. The result is a hole can melt right in the middle of an aluminum piston! ... and to make matters worse it can be completely silent .. you won't hear it until it's too late .. no detonation sounds, knocks or pings.
The condition just described is for a plug with the wrong heat range (too hot) run in an engine in good condition, correct carb etc.. the same as described above. If it is known that the correct heat range plug was used then other causes such as too lean a fuel mixture, timing advanced too far, etc., etc., are overheating the plug.
This is where "reading the plugs" can be used to determine all sorts of engine problems. But as mentioned it must be known that the correct plug was used to start with.
The heat range test is used to make this determination. At the outset always choose a colder plug first if you are not familiar with the nature of the plugs said to be hotter. That way the worst thing that can happen is the plug can foul out whereas too hot a plug can cause the problems above.
This information is from Larry Brumfield the creator of the Brumfield High compression head.

Binger · 10-10-2016, 08:44 AM

Thanks for the information. Sounds like I am going to clean up the old plugs and go for a drive. The Autolite 3076 plugs have a nice light tan color when I pull them out. however I didn't shut off the car and check like described above. I will check them that way when I go for my drive. Easy enough to swap out the plugs on the road and directly compare their performance.

BILL WILLIAMSON · 10-10-2016, 08:52 AM

Vermin has Champion C-16-C plugs, barely run. I heard they worked well in Model A's. They're also correct for many Old Packards.
Bill W.

10-09-2016, 12:13 PM	#2
RonC Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Rhode Island Posts: 1,868	Re: Spark Plug question The correct production plugs were champion 3X which are still available.

10-09-2016, 04:16 PM	#3
Binger Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2013 Location: Cheyoming Posts: 136	Re: Spark Plug question I understand the 3X are available but they are expensive. I was just wondering how the plugs I found compare to the 3X or the Autolite ones I am currently running. I will clean them up and give them a try. I was hoping someone would shed some light on how those might work. Mostly wondering about their heat range. I don't know how champion labels their plugs. Is the 3COM Hotter than the 2COM? How does the 3X differ from the 3COM?

10-09-2016, 07:53 PM	#4
Gunmetal blue2 Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2013 Location: Columbia, TN.38401 Posts: 422	Re: Spark Plug question last I checked that O'Reilly Auto Parts Store have 3X Champion Spark Plugs for $19.95 ec.

10-09-2016, 08:05 PM	#5
ursus Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Oregon Posts: 1,462	Re: Spark Plug question The Champion 2COM is close in heat range to the Champion 3X, at least that was my experience with a set that came with my car. I never did understand what Champion had in mind with 0COM, 1COM, 2COM and 3COM series of plugs or what vehicles they were intended for.

10-09-2016, 10:09 PM	#6
Mike V. Florida Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Florida between Sarasota and TampaSouth Florida Posts: 14,054	Re: Spark Plug question Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) Model A spark plug heat ranges Champion W18 = close to original 3X Depending on your driving habits, etc., a cooler plug may be the one for you: Champion W-14 (cooler than W-18) Champion W-10 (cooler than W-14) Motorcraft TT-10 (same as W-14) Autolite 3076 (same as W-14 and TT-10) Also Champion W16Y which some people will argue that it's cooler than Champion W-18 but hotter than W-14 as the numbers would suggest. On the other hand, for years and listed as such on their official heat range chart, the engineers at Champion proclaimed that the Y means projected nose (which it is, you can tell by looking at it) and for this reason it is supposed to run hotter at slower speeds. Conduct a proper heat range test as follows to see what is needed for your car and how you drive: Drive around for at least 30 minutes to allow engine heat to build and then drive out someplace where you can run the car at a sustained speed on a straight road for a few miles without having to slow down or stop, very important. Run the car up to the maximum speed in high gear that you would typically drive if you decided to drive fast and I don't mean dangerously high speed. Hold the car at that sustained speed and without letting off the throttle, reach over and turn off the ignition. Let off the throttle, push in the clutch quickly and coast over to the side of the road. Open the hood and allow the engine to cool off a bit (allow to cool off completely if running an aluminum head). Remove the spark plugs and examine the color and condition of the electrodes and insulators. The color will be a true indication of how hot or cold the plugs are running. But remember ... during the test if you let the engine slow down or let it idle and then check the plugs you will have changed the effects and not get a true indication. I've seen many a person let an engine idle, check the plugs and then claim they were just right only to discover later that the plug heat range was too hot. It they are white, the plug is too hot. Go to a colder plug. If they are black, they are too cold. Go to a hotter plug. If they are a shade of tan, they are just about right. Also understand that all this is not set in stone. A person who putts around at say, 35 or 40 MPH and never faster may need a hotter plug. The lower the combustion chamber temperature the hotter the plug should be. On the other hand, as conditions cause the combustion chamber temperature to rise, a colder plug may be necessary. You just don't want the plugs to be sooty black and foul out which means they're too cold or chalky white which means they're too hot. You want the plugs to be somewhere in between like light brown to grayish tan. However, slightly white may not be too bad unless it is "chalky white." Keep in mind that the plug descriptions are for engines in good condition, correct carb mixture, good hot ignition, etc., etc.. One with bad rings for example can cause oil to get on a correct heat range plug and foul it out (short to ground down the side of the center electrode) where it won't fire. It will be black and oily. On the other hand, a plug that is running too hot will turn chalky white or bright white. This can reduce the life of the plug or even cause the electrode to burn up. A plug can also get hot enough to glow which can ignite the mixture before the spark occurs (pre-ignition). This can be bad news... During pre-ignition the temperature inside the combustion chambers can reach WELDING temperatures in just a few seconds. The result is a hole can melt right in the middle of an aluminum piston! ... and to make matters worse it can be completely silent .. you won't hear it until it's too late .. no detonation sounds, knocks or pings. The condition just described is for a plug with the wrong heat range (too hot) run in an engine in good condition, correct carb etc.. the same as described above. If it is known that the correct heat range plug was used then other causes such as too lean a fuel mixture, timing advanced too far, etc., etc., are overheating the plug. This is where "reading the plugs" can be used to determine all sorts of engine problems. But as mentioned it must be known that the correct plug was used to start with. The heat range test is used to make this determination. At the outset always choose a colder plug first if you are not familiar with the nature of the plugs said to be hotter. That way the worst thing that can happen is the plug can foul out whereas too hot a plug can cause the problems above. This information is from Larry Brumfield the creator of the Brumfield High compression head. __________________ What's right about America is that although we have a mess of problems, we have great capacity - intellect and resources - to do some thing about them. - Henry Ford II

10-10-2016, 08:44 AM	#7
Binger Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2013 Location: Cheyoming Posts: 136	Re: Spark Plug question Thanks for the information. Sounds like I am going to clean up the old plugs and go for a drive. The Autolite 3076 plugs have a nice light tan color when I pull them out. however I didn't shut off the car and check like described above. I will check them that way when I go for my drive. Easy enough to swap out the plugs on the road and directly compare their performance.

10-10-2016, 08:52 AM	#8
BILL WILLIAMSON Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: FRESNO, CA Posts: 12,560	Re: Spark Plug question Vermin has Champion C-16-C plugs, barely run. I heard they worked well in Model A's. They're also correct for many Old Packards. Bill W. __________________ "THE ASSISTANT GURU OF STUFF"