Steering Box Rebuild

[Mr. Will]

I have a 37-39 steering box, casting 78-3550-B, I am going to swap into my 36 Cabriolet. After doing some research I decided to do the rebuild myself. I already had new bearings and a gasket set in inventory so figured it was time to learn the process. I disassembled the gear box to find a badly pitted worm gear and sector roller as well as bearings. I ordered a new worm and sector roller from the Early Ford Store, pressed off the old worm gear and pressed on the new without any issues. Then went over to my neighbors and chucked up the sector in the mill and cut the head off the pin for the roller and pushed the pin out. Took some measurements for the new roller and found there was a .018 difference, the new being the larger. Then measured the bushings on either side and found the new bushings to be a total of .007 larger then the original bushings and the roller .011 larger then original. So I decided to take the old bushings and dress them with some 400 on a piece of glass in a figure 8 to take down the need .0035 on each bushing to fit the sector roller, will do that today.
Also I want to mention that the new sector roller bearings are much larger then original and the bushing to roller surface is much smaller, not real impressed with the replacement parts.

From what I understand when swapping in the later 37-39 box in a 35-36 the upper mounting hole has to be redrilled in the casting approximately 3/4" lower? I know you can use the mounting plate for 37-39, and I have that, but from my research I have found that will also slightly drop the gear and change the angle of the column and then you have to address the floor board and column drop. I choose not to do this as I want this swap to look like it was meant to be.
My question is can anyone give me a precise measurement as to the location of the upper mounting hole in relation to the lower holes. If anyone has a 35-36 box I could get the measurements from that.

Thanks For Any Help
Dan

[JSeery]

Originally Posted by Mr. Will

From what I understand when swapping in the later 37-39 box in a 35-36 the upper mounting hole has to be redrilled in the casting approximately 3/4" lower? I know you can use the mounting plate for 37-39, and I have that, but from my research I have found that will also slightly drop the gear and change the angle of the column and then you have to address the floor board and column drop. I choose not to do this as I want this swap to look like it was meant to be.

Thanks For Any Help
Dan

Is there a reason you can't just make a pattern off of your existing frame mounting plate and transfer that to the latter steering box?

[Mr. Will]

Originally Posted by JSeery

Is there a reason you can't just make a pattern off of your existing frame mounting plate and transfer that to the latter steering box?

I am trying to do this before I disassemble the car and would like to drill the hole prior to assembly of the gear. I want to use the car for the rest of the summer then tackle this job in the off season.

[JSeery]

I tried, LOL

[Mr. Will]

Originally Posted by JSeery

I tried, LOL

Guess I should have clarified this a little better. I am also converting to hydraulic brakes and a dropped axle. I want to have everything done and ready to go so when I disassemble the vehicle it will be all ready to reassemble.

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[36tudordeluxe]

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I have a '39 steering box in my '36; I used the later steering box to frame mount and had no problem with the angle of the steering column. The difference in ease of steering was amazing.

[Mr. Will]

Originally Posted by 36tudordeluxe

I have a '39 steering box in my '36; I used the later steering box to frame mount and had no problem with the angle of the steering column. The difference in ease of steering was amazing.

So your floor boards fit back in without any trouble?

Also in my research for steering box swap I see you purchased a NOS sector, I'm tempered to do the same.

[Mr. Will]

Anyone else use the 37 and later steering box mount and have any issues?

Also would like to hear from any members that made this swap and drilled the box casting to fit the 35-36 frame mount.

[Mr. Will]

Got the Bushings fit and the sector roller in..

[swanwaco32]

I put a 37 in 36 and had to add onto the bottom ear. May have had to elongate some other holes? Used original drop and it all lined up fine. Well worth the effort..!!!

[my4dv8]

Mr Will, how do get on peening over the ends of the roller shaft?
Just doing one with parts from Macs at present and the roller shaft seems mighty hard when attempting to peen it over and of course it want to slide through as it's shorter than the box housing O/D.

[Mr. Will]

Originally Posted by my4dv8

Mr Will, how do get on peening over the ends of the roller shaft?
Just doing one with parts from Macs at present and the roller shaft seems mighty hard when attempting to peen it over and of course it want to slide through as it's shorter than the box housing O/D.

I did a tack weld with a tig. That is the only way you can do it, you will never peen it over

[Mr. Will]

Originally Posted by swanwaco32

I put a 37 in 36 and had to add onto the bottom ear. May have had to elongate some other holes? Used original drop and it all lined up fine. Well worth the effort..!!!

So your saying you added to the bottom ear of the steering box and used the original 36 frame mount?

[Brian]

When I put a 37-39 style s/box in my 35, I used the original 35 frame mount, the two bottom holes line up, needed to drill a new top hole approx 3/4" down as you're proposing. The engine needs to be out in order to provide the room to get in with a drill. Works well.

However.....my car is RHD, from what I've read on here and other forums, is that if you mount the 'box like this with LHD, you'll encounter clearance issues between box and exhaust manifold. hence the reason most people will fit the 37-39 style mount.

So...cannot give you a definitive answer re LHD, sorry.

The 35-36 pitman arm differs from the 37 type too. I used the original 35 pitman arm on the later box. Dunno if it makes a difference, but it works great.

[my4dv8]

We did manage to peen it over with much persistence and using several lovely cuss words . I had thought of a mig weld but always in the back of my mind was welding to a hardened steel it often fractures off. Maybe a metalurgist guru can advise here?

Originally Posted by Mr. Will

I did a tack weld with a tig. That is the only way you can do it, you will never peen it over

[NZHOTROD]

http://i170.photobucket.com/albums/u...psoosluhod.jpg
TIG welded mine,
here's the link: http://www.nz-hotrod.com/vbulletin/s...k-Deuce/page65

[Andy]

I tig welded my sector but I wish I hadn't. If I had a do over, I would trim the shaft on a grinder and weld a strap across one end. Put the shaft in the sector and weld another strap across the other end and not weld on to the sector. If you want to change the roller later, it will be near impossible to get a shaft out that has been welded to the sector.

[36tudordeluxe]

Originally Posted by Mr. Will

So your saying you added to the bottom ear of the steering box and used the original 36 frame mount?

What I did was remove the original '36 steering box to frame mounting plate ( with engine removed still a challenge) and replaced it with later mount by bolting it to the frame in place of the rivets. I have '39 pedals so the floorboards had to be modified slightly anyway. The "NOS sector" I got on eBay was junk and replaced it with a new repop. from Argentina and worked out very well. I used the '36 steering arm but had to file in four new grooves so I could index the arm so it didn't hit the wishbone when I make a full right hand turn. NealinCa (on this forum) pressed on the roller and provided the above mentioned sector, maybe the sector wasn't from Argentina now that I think about it.

[JM 35 Sedan]

Originally Posted by Mr. Will

Anyone else use the 37 and later steering box mount and have any issues?

Also would like to hear from any members that made this swap and drilled the box casting to fit the 35-36 frame mount.

We (Jeff/very tangled, his Dad, and I) installed a '37-'39 steering box in their '36 Phaeton several years ago. We tried every method that we could find or devise to attach the later box to the stock '36 frame mounting bracket and nothing worked well for us. The box interference with the left side exhaust manifold was a complete show stopper in our situation, unless we were willing to substantially raise the engine on its frame mounts. The fan blades were already very close to the bottom of the top radiator tank, so the decision was made to replace the stock steering box frame mount bracket with a '37-'41 bracket. Once the later bracket was in place EVERYTHING bolted back in place as if it was designed to originally fit in that '36 Phaeton. All the posts that we had read, people whom we had talked with, and other sources of information said this would not be the case, but we had a total bolt up situation on this particular conversion. The Earth, Moon, and Stars must have all been perfectly aligned for us on that one.
I believe there was a post with pictures here on this project. Jeff will probably remember.

[Mr. Will]

Originally Posted by JM 35 Sedan

We (Jeff/very tangled, his Dad, and I) installed a '37-'39 steering box in their '36 Phaeton several years ago. We tried every method that we could find or devis to attach the later box to the stock '36 frame mounting bracket and nothing worked well for us. The box interference with the left side exhaust manifold was a complete show stopper in our situation, unless we were willing to substantially raise the engine on its frame mounts. The fan blades were already very close to the bottom of the top radiator tank, so the decision was made to replace the stock steering box frame mount bracket with a '37-'41 bracket. Once the later bracket was in place EVERYTHING bolted back in place as if it was designed to originally fit in that '36 Phaeton. All the posts that we had read, people whom we had talked with, and other sources of information said this would not be the case, but we had a total bolt up situation on this particular conversion. The Earth, Moon, and Stars must have all been perfectly aligned for us on that one.
I believe there was a post with pictures here on this project. Jeff will probably remember.

Thank you for that information that is exactly what I was looking for. Guess I will be using the 37-41 mount. Did you use the 37 78-3550 pitman arm?