Ford produced bodies only

[Steve Plucker]

In reading "The Ford Model A As Henry Built it" by DeAngles, I take it that the only "Ford" produced Model A passenger body styles were the following:

Standard and Deluxe Phaeton
Standard and Deluxe Roadster
Standard and Deluxe Coupe
Special Coupe
Sport Coupe
Business Coupe
Standard and Deluxe Tudor Sedan
Taxi Cab
Town Car

Is this correct?

All the rest were by Briggs and/or Murray.

Thanks.

Pluck

[Rowdy]

If my conversations with Bob Johnson were correct Briggs built the Town Car. Also Budd made the tudor sedan in 28-29. Rod

[Bob Bidonde]

Not exactly correct. Coupes and pickup truck cabs were also produced by Budd. Baker Raulang made wood bodies.

[Dave in MD]

Pluck,
Did not some of 1930 and 31 Coupes have Briggs body tags on them?
Dave

[Brian SATX]

And some of the SW 4 door Sedans were done by Ford I believe.

[mantta]

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My 1930 standard coupe has a Briggs tag on the firewall.

[RonC]

Originally Posted by Brian SATX

And some of the SW 4 door Sedans were done by Ford I believe.

Weren't those Ford assembled slant sedans from Murray and Briggs body parts??

[SteveB31]

Budd made the 1928-1929 closed cab truck cabs

[SteveB31]

Town Cars were not made by Ford

[180 a]

The Deluxe Phaeton was made by Briggs.

[Steve Plucker]

Here is what we have so far from above answers:

Standard and Deluxe Phaeton: Briggs,
Standard and Deluxe Roadster
Standard and Deluxe Coupe: Budd, Briggs,
Special Coupe: Budd
Sport Coupe: Budd
Business Coupe: Budd
Standard and Deluxe Tudor Sedan: 28-29 Budd,
Taxi Cab
Town Car: Briggs

[Dave Slater]

The 1931 slant windshield sedans were either Briggs or Murray. To the best of my knowledge Ford did not make the slant windshield.

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

Originally Posted by forever4

Quite possibly/likely, yes.

Vince, didn't this get discussed at a JSC meeting that Ford did the stamping only but not the assembly on the slant windshield Fordor?

[Steve Plucker]

Originally Posted by forever4

How did you derive that from the posts? Lots of errors.
Also, BTW the Taxi was made by Briggs

If there is "Lots of errors"...then point them out to us and make them right.

Pluck

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

Originally Posted by forever4

Not sure what MARC JSC discussed, but I have seen indications that make me believe just the opposite of what you pose. The stampings could have come from anywhere.

There are 'unmolested' cars existing which contain parts/features from both Briggs and Murray. Does that mean the Ford may have produced those bodies from parts procured, or that maybe Murray and Briggs sometimes supplied each other with needed parts?

I think there are probably cases where Ford built up the body at the plant using panels provided by others. The 1931 slant windshield sedan was specifically designed to be built up using panel sub-assemblies, like a Tudor for example.

The question to me is, is the interior trim simple enough to be done by the trimmers in the assemble plant? What about all the Canadian built SW fordors? Who built them, and from whose parts? Cars with considerable and complicated trim or tops were typically built and trimmed by Murray and Briggs, and were shipped complete and trimmed (or CKD) to the assembly plant.

The 1931 Slant Fordor was designed more like a mass produced steel coupe or tudor body, yet was still a rather large, heavily contented car to trim. It could have gone either way.

Also, in the 1970s it was very common to call all 1931 Slant Windshield fordor cars "Murray body". This is because the popular 'fact' was that the Murray had arched door windows and Briggs were straight. The vast majority of people at that time did not know or make the distinction that the slant window cars were a completely different construction than all the earlier Briggs and Murray cars that the rule applied to.

Despite the tendency to call them Murray body slant windshield sedans, more than 90%+ of the SW Sedans having body tags are actually Briggs 141-. Very few Murray body tag slant fordors are recorded. A much larger number have no holes at all for a body tag, so who assembled them? Possibly Ford from Murray and/or Briggs body components.

Vince I am guessing this to be about a year or so ago. You were there taking dictation on your laptop, -and Sturm was giving the revisions for the Upholstery section when the verbiage was being clarified. He made a comment about the S/W all being outsourced when I questioned about the Ford-produced body, and the consensus after a 15 minute discussion was there were Ford-stamped S/W sheetmetal that was assembled by the smaller Briggs manufacturing company. I believe the comment was that Ford did stamp their logo on some of the parts that Briggs finished assembling which is why those were found to have the D-nuts. They asked me specifically if I have any Ford materials that would substantiate that Ford indeed did manufacture the S/W body in-house. I did not, --and everyone said they had never seen anything (prints, ER, etc.) that would indicate they did.

Your thoughts regarding fewer Briggs makes an interesting thought that maybe because Ford's production was slowing during this time, he could utilize his stamping equipment to save some costs and then outsource the assembly to Briggs.

[Steve Plucker]

Originally Posted by Dave in MD

Pluck,
Did not some of 1930 and 31 Coupes have Briggs body tags on them?
Dave

David,

I do not know on that one...seems there is no one who knows the answer to that or or my original post and provide a definitive answer if there is one. If there is...they are ignoring the issue which is highly likely!

Pluck

[MAG]

From Post #22
"Actually I have never seen or heard of Ford identification stamped on the parts, however the Briggs logo is sometimes found on 1931 slant windshield fordor parts which also have solid D nuts, not the cage D nuts (found on Murray)."
For what it is worth....
Picture is close-up of Briggs stamp on the rear subrail between the bolt holes for the rear spare tire carrier on '31 Slant TS.

[SteveB31]

Where did you come up with Special and Sport coupes being made by Budd? Also, I believe all std phaetons were made by Ford.

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

Originally Posted by forever4

I was stating the opposite. My observations and belief is that most 1931 slant windshield fordors were Briggs bodies, not Murray.

I agree with you, I meant one thing yet wrote another. I meant that Briggs was a smaller company and likely that Ford did the stamping as a cost savings measure. Thanks to you, and to Marco for the PM. We all three are in agreement.

[Dave in MD]

Pluck,
As Vince said the Briggs body tags did appear on the 1930/1 Standard and Deluxe Coupes. Dennis Smith in Texas has his list of body tag prefixes on both the MARC and MAFCA web sites I think.
Regards,
Dave