Two Lessons Learned

[Pilotdave]

Thought I would pass along a couple of recent experiences I've had working on our Model A. Maybe this post will save someone else from repeating my mistakes!

1. Never assume anything. I had attempted twice to stop gas from weeping around the face plate in the gauge. Both failed. I had cleaned all mating surfaces, used new, thin cork gaskets, and thoroughly tightened the inner nut. My spouse was the designated watcher inside the car while I added gas. First: "it's leaking again!" Then: "Is this metal plate supposed to move?" The face plate was loose in the gauge...as was the entire gasket-glass-gasket-face plate "sandwich". I'd assumed when assembling the gauge that it was properly tightened since the nut wouldn't turn further. Instead, it had bound up on a damaged thread. After dressing the threads a bit, the nut screwed in further, compressing the sandwich properly and the leak went away. Live and learn!

2. Country of origin doesn't seem to matter with turn signal flashers. The turn signal flash rate in the car was about double what it should be. Same result with half a dozen flashers in stock. Some were USA made, some offshore. All claimed to be 6v 535 Heavy Duty. I had spent hours chasing potential poor grounds, wiring error, bulb wattage - all to no avail. A friend suggested I buy a flasher at a different shop and try it. I did - this one (offshore) worked fine. The lesson seems to be: If none of the flashers on the shelf work right, you just haven't bought enough flashers!

Happy motoring!
Dave

[brianpharmd]

Pilotdave -

Did both the right and left turn signals flash at a rate double what it should be or just one side? I am having this same problem with the left turn signal. On my dash, there is a light that comes on when I engage either the left or right turn signal. It is off when the turn signal is off.

I too went and purchased 3-4 different 6v 535 heavy duty flashers. One did not work at all and the others seem to work. The left and right turn signals now flash at a normal rate but my light on the dash stays "on" when the turn signals are off and "flashes" when the left or right signal is turned on.

Just trying to get an idea if I need to look at an additional flasher or if I probably have something else wrong. I figured the flasher was easy enough to replace than having to trace wires in a concealed car so the change in turn signal/dash light characteristics seems odd. The only other thing I did was replace the rear tail light bulbs with Bratton's LED panels. However, the issue with the left turn signal was there whether it was with the standard bulbs or the LEDs.

Thanks - Brian

[Patrick L.]

The new flashers tend to be junk. I try to buy every old 535 I can find.

[Pilotdave]

Brian - I'm understanding your post to say that the 2x flashing rate problem went away with a different flasher. Which is good! My 2x flashing rate applied to both sides. If it happens on just one side, I'd initially suspect a low-wattage bulb or poor ground....not sure how a flasher "knows" left from right, but I'm concluding that anything can and will happen with these things. I think the dash light behavior you describe is normal. I have three cars, all with the same turn signal set-up....the "I'm here and available" light behaves as you describe on one but not the other two where it's lit up when the signal isn't being used. Which makes no sense as there is a small bulb in the units that is powered through the L terminal on the flasher. I'm convinced that turn signals, and especially flashers, are haunted. Try another flasher - you might get a different result! I hope I've addressed your question - PM me if not.

Patrick, I used to agree with you. But some of the flashers that ran at 2x were old 535s. I'm not sure there's any right answer!

BTW, I bought 3 flashers yesterday. The one I described earlier gives a 1 per second flash rate. The other two are noticeably faster but no where near the 2 per second rate I was getting with my stash of on-hand stock.

Dave

[Patrick L.]

Well Dave I certainly believe your last sentence in the original post !

With flashers that are flashing faster than they should, I'm just wondering if you've tried to slow them down by adding more resistance such as extra or higher wattage/CP bulbs.



There is also a new flasher on the market, EF33W, that may work. Its one I haven't tried. I got fed up trying different electronic flashers, but, that one wasn't available until recently. The EF33 is one that doesn't work.

[Synchro909]

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Originally Posted by Patrick L.

Well Dave I certainly believe your last sentence in the original post !

With flashers that are flashing faster than they should, I'm just wondering if you've tried to slow them down by adding more resistance such as extra or higher wattage/CP bulbs.



There is also a new flasher on the market, EF33W, that may work. Its one I haven't tried. I got fed up trying different electronic flashers, but, that one wasn't available until recently. The EF33 is one that doesn't work.

Power = voltage squared divided by resistance. Increasing the resistance will REDUCE the power (wattage).

[Dollar Bill]

If using old type flasher and one side is flashing faster than the other, the quick flashing side has more resistance. As mentioned, it could be loose connection or lower wattage bulb.

[tbirdtbird]

'the quick flashing side has more resistance.'

sure it is not the other way around....?

[Dollar Bill]

Tbird, you may be correct. I know when I connect trailer lights to my pickup, t/s flash faster due to the additional lights?

[redmodelt]

I have noted in my cars and others that if a bulb is burned out, the side with the burned out bulb will flash faster (turn siginals).

[Pilotdave]

Patrick, I was getting the high flash rate with 21cp bulbs in the rear and 10 cp in the front. And I did try the EF33 - it didn't work for me, either.

The discussion about resistance and flash rates seems to confuse a lot of people - me included. I wonder if this happens because writers tend to use the terms "power" and "resistance" interchangeably when they are inversely related as pointed out by synchro909.

It seems to me that there are nearly as many words written on this forum about turn signal issues as any other topic, partly due to part quality problems, partly to understanding the electronic theory, and partly to mechanical (ex: poor grounds) challenges!

[tinman080]

this one will never fail you...no flasher needed

[Dollar Bill]

Tbird’s question prompted me to get a better understanding of how a flasher actually works. Attached are some of the notes I made during the research. I hope they add to your turn signal troubleshooting proficiency.

[Lona]

When I'm driving behind my wife in her '31 roadster with LED tail lights, the fast flashing of the directional signals seems to catch your attention more than the normal slow flashers. I was going to fix the problem but decided to leave it alone because of the attention the fast and really bright flashers give to those driving behind her.

Does anyone know if leaving them this way is bad for the signal circuits or might cause future electrical problems? We have been running them this way for two years.

Glen

[captndan]

Learning something new everyday. I would like more info on a leaking gas gauge. Thanks

[Patrick L.]

Originally Posted by Pilotdave

Patrick, I was getting the high flash rate with 21cp bulbs in the rear and 10 cp in the front. And I did try the EF33 - it didn't work for me, either.

The discussion about resistance and flash rates seems to confuse a lot of people - me included. I wonder if this happens because writers tend to use the terms "power" and "resistance" interchangeably when they are inversely related as pointed out by synchro909.

It seems to me that there are nearly as many words written on this forum about turn signal issues as any other topic, partly due to part quality problems, partly to understanding the electronic theory, and partly to mechanical (ex: poor grounds) challenges!

Dave. I'm not sure if the EF33W unit will work either and I'm not willing at this time to try it since I've been able to get the warp switches to work. It may be polarity sensitive and I've already wasted too much time and money on failed electronic experiments.

Maybe I'm using the wrong term when I say resistance. But to reduce the rate of flash I've found that adding/changing to higher candle power/ wattage bulbs and/or adding additional bulbs works. It just seems to me that adding extra resistance to the circuit which holds the warp switch open longer. But, maybe I'm all wrong, it just works.

Most companies sell resistors to add to the LED replacements in order to fire the flashers. I guess I was under the assumption that resistors add resistance.

[Terry, NJ]

I am probably one of the worst to give advice on electrical problems, but here goes; The rates of flashing are dependent on the resistance of the bulbs. That's why it flashes at a faster rate when a bulb is burned out. Check the resistance/candlepower of the bulbs, perhaps you need to increase one or the other.
Terry

[Dollar Bill]

Does anyone know if leaving them this way is bad for the signal circuits or might cause future electrical problems? We have been running them this way for two years.

You're good - Won't hurt a thing.

[rocket1]

I know on a modern car if a directional bulb is out you will get rapid flashers,less resistance.I also had a bad ground on a parking light that caused the directional indicator on the dash to glow faintly.

[Pilotdave]

Patrick, I think your approach makes sense: change things one step at a time until the turn signals behave....especially since the quality of the flasher can affect that behavior. If we were dealing with uniform flashers, then we could focus on a few simple relationships among current, resistance, power and volts.