59Ab: pull-eeze!

[cuzncletus]

Sorting through my problems putting my 59A into my A chassis I've hit a wall; hopefully a short, soft one. I can't seem to get a fan and a generator mounted to line up with my crank and pump pulleys. The crank in my motor seems to have some kind of ratchet gear in the snout that I assume is for a hand crank. On the snout of the crank there is only one pulley, that being the one in line with the water pumps. My guess is I'm missing a pulley that bolts onto the flange at the snout of the crank. Are these available?

If that's the case, then I guess there's some way to drive a fan off the end of the crank. I have two fans but both seem to be off of 8ba's as their mounts are way too wide to fit in the slot at the end of a 59a manifold. A friend lent me an offset generator bracket and an aftermarket cast aluminum fan bracket for a 59. I'm going to try to heat/press the shaft out of one of the 8ba fans to pinch bolt it into the fan bracket. But then, with no provision to bolt anything onto the front of my Eddie Meyers intake, where would the fan go? And "Yes", to one condescending 'Barner out there. I do understand hot rodding, am fairly handy with a welder having supported myself with one for a while, and have fabricated a bracket. It's just that I'm off in virgin territory for me and appreciate the help available on this forum.

[flatheadmurre]

The generator should line up with the pumps on the inner pulley....
For one pulley only you got crank or generator mounted fan to choose from.
If you want a bracket mounted fan you need a double pulley on the crank.

[cuzncletus]

That's what I was thinking. This motor came out of my 39 several years ago. It was a good running engine that didn't run hot in the car. It has not been disassembled except the heads removed to make sure there were no cracks. The pulley that is on it is the one that was on the car then. The pumps are the same, rebuilt by Skip. I've moved 500 miles away since the engine was taken out, A lot of unidentified stuff was left behind. Was there a crank mounted fan on the car then? It seems it would place it awfully low on the radiator for efficient flow.

You mentioned a generator mounted fan. I'd had that thought. Are there generators with a fan built onto the pulley? When I mocked up an 8ba fan on a prototype bracke the blades seemed to come perilously close to the crab distributor.

[theHIGHLANDER]

39 Deluxe, crank mounted fan, 39 Standard, generator mount. Embrace the "stepchild" nature of 39 stuff. Some is the same as 37-8 (all), some is the same as 40-1 (some). There's a fan that measures 2" FROM THE BACK SIDE OF THE FAN BLADE (the rear most curve), and most fans you find measure 2" FROM THE BASE (or at the rivet flange) TO THE MOUNTING SURFACE. So, why did I go all caps? Just being a good sport as I've gone through this issue already and now know what I need. I ended up with a Powergen and an Offy pulley to mount the OEM fan to. Good luck, and contact VanPelt's for a fan.

[flatjack9]

You need a crank pulley and fan off of a 59AB engine.

[JM 35 Sedan]

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The shortest early Ford V-8 fan, from generator pulley flange mount to front edge of blades, is a stock '34 (maybe '33) to '36 fan.

The stock 59 series engines had a double belt cooling and generator drive system that used a double sheeve crankshaft pulley. When building an AV8, you would not normally have the space for all of the stock 59 belt drive system. By using a non generator mounting intake manifold you have further complications to deal with in mounting a generator/alternator and cooling fan. I'm guessing there are bracket mounting gizmos made to accomplish what you are trying to do or you could probably fabricate your own gizmos to do all of this, but I think the simplest way would be to use a generator mount intake, a single belt drive system, and the shortest (front to back) generator mounting fan you can find, as I have already mentioned above. JMO

ps....MacVP is a good source for most things you may need. I also have some of those shortest fans mentioned above, that could be for sale. PM me if you have any interest in getting one.

[flatjack9]

A lot will depend on where the fan is in relation to the radiator.

[cuzncletus]

Thanks to all. My first thought is another intake to mount my generator while still maintaining two 94's. (By the way, these are from CharlieNY. First rate performance from him. Watch for a post in the near future.) I hate to eat the money on the Eddie Meyer, but it's looking like that may be the cheapest of the alternatives.

I'll check with Van Pelt. I need to order some parts from them anyway. From my initial mockup a crank mounted fan appears too be too low.

[JM 35 Sedan]

Gotta love those Eddie Meyer 2x2 hyrise intakes, and they are available with front generator mount. This one will probably go on an early 221ci, 21 stud engine in a '35 3w coupe, along with E.M. finned aluminum heads.

[Bored&Stroked]

If you're running the EM type of manifold as shown above (or any of the early EM manifolds with the two-pot high-rise setup), then you can mount your generator right on the front of the manifold, then bolt your fan to it. You'd be using a generator in the 33 - 36 era . . . the front pulley has four 1/4" bolt holes that the fan bolts to. If you need a short fan, then you'd use a 33-34 fan, if you need a longer one, then a 32.

You'd be using stock 37-48 single sheeve water pumps, the single sheeve crank pulley and single sheeve generator pulley. The crank pulley on mine was made by cutting off the fan-mount on a 39 style crank pulley (as you would NOT be mounting the fan off of the crankshaft on an 'A' or any of the early V8's).

Below is a picture is the engine I just put in my 32 - has the exact manifold noted above, with the generator and a 32 fan mounted:

2015-11-07 18.31.02 copy.jpg

2015-11-07 18.31.16 copy.jpg

2015-11-07 18.30.55 copy.jpg

[Walt Dupont--Me.]

How do you get any work done with that nice clean walls and all that nice equipment? I like that paint job on the engine. Walt

[cuzncletus]

Wow, Bored and Stroked. That's a piece of art. I'm running the same manifold on the 53 motor in my 39 that the 59A came out of. It's a 276 incher with lots of professional machine and porting work. I was hoping to bring the 46 motor on line at a much lower cost.

The genertor with fan looks like it would work. I've never looked for earlier V8 stuff. Are these available? I have a generator off of an 8ba that's already been converted to 12V+. I was hoping to use it but am also not sure if it can be converted over to the eqrlier style mount.

[Bassman/NZ]

I have a 59A, actually a C59A, in a Model A. I use the stock '47 fan assy which is separate from the gennie. If you're going into a stock Model A this may be too long. My frame is stretched a little. I have a double pulley on the crank.

[flatjack9]

Doesn't a generator mounted fan sit a little high on the radiator? I've got a 59A in my 32 with the 59A fan and it is near the center of the radiator. I would think the model A setup would be the same.

[TomT/Williamsburg]

I am not a Mid A officionado but I just played with this today at the House if Fab shop. My 32 has a 59ab in it with the center mounted fan. It is close, but it makes it. This will not work in a Mod A unless you stretch the frame (as mentioned) or set the motor back by modifying the firewall. In its "stock" or unmodified firewall location a flattie in a Mod A will only have enough clearance for the generator mounted fan. It is tight at the top where the top tank goes under on the engine side but it will make it. Funny how this popped up with my just having tried this ...

[Kahuna]

Follow Bored & Stroked advice:
Doing his & my way gains you the most space and ease of operation.
You end up with a very simple & reliable system, with the fan in the right
place.
I even used an early 37-41 distributor. No clearance issues at all

[Bored&Stroked]

Originally Posted by Walt Dupont--Me.

How do you get any work done with that nice clean walls and all that nice equipment? I like that paint job on the engine. Walt

Thanks Walt - but it is a constant battle to keep it anywhere near clean. I've always felt that one needs an 'engine assembly room' that is as clean as possible for all assembly work (just to help reduce the chances of crap getting in the darn things). BUT - I have to continuously force myself to clean-up as often as possible . . . because it just seems that crap shows up, manages to crawl by itself onto the floor and proliferate on it's own!

Yeah, on the paint decided I would try to somewhat match the burgundy leather color that I used for the interior. When the whole thing is together, you don't see much of it anyway.

ClevelandAutorama-Interior2 copy.jpg

Didn't mean to hi-jack the thread . . . back to fans, generators and pulleys!

B&S

[scooder]

Bassman,
You got any pics of your A showing the fan stuff and stretched frame please, sounds interesting.
Cuzncletus,
Sorry for hijack,
Martin.

[JM 35 Sedan]

Originally Posted by TomT/Williamsburg

I am not a Mid A officionado but I just played with this today at the House if Fab shop. My 32 has a 59ab in it with the center mounted fan. It is close, but it makes it. This will not work in a Mod A unless you stretch the frame (as mentioned) or set the motor back by modifying the firewall. In its "stock" or unmodified firewall location a flattie in a Mod A will only have enough clearance for the generator mounted fan. It is tight at the top where the top tank goes under on the engine side but it will make it. Funny how this popped up with my just having tried this ...

Tom, thanks for a complete explanation on answering the original post. I had mentioned the same things on my first reply on this thread but doubt anyone else was listening (or reading , or even understood)) what I had posted. I just went back to that post and made it a bit clearer for anyone else who comes along and decides to read this post for the first time

ps...actually "theHIGHLANDER" nailed this first in post #4, but again, I don't believe anyone was listening or reading his post either

[JM 35 Sedan]

[QUOTE=Bored&Stroked;1267238]If you're running the EM type of manifold as shown above (or any of the early EM manifolds with the two-pot high-rise setup), then you can mount your generator right on the front of the manifold, then bolt your fan to it. You'd be using a generator in the 33 - 36 era Later non cutout generators will also work, and many prefer the later two connection generator with a remote box regulator, but you must find & use the correct fan mount pulley with the large shaft mount I.D. . . . the front pulley has four 1/4" bolt holes that the fan bolts to. If you need a short fan, then you'd use a 33-34 '35 & '36 should also be included here and possibly '37 to '39 STANDARD which have slightly longer hubs compared to '33 to '36. fan, if you need a longer one, then a 32.

You'd be using stock 37-48 single sheeve water pumps, the single sheeve crank pulley and single sheeve generator pulley. The crank pulley on mine was made by cutting off the fan-mount on a 39 This would have to of been a '39 deluxe or later, since '39 standard came from the factory as a single sheeve pulley style crank pulley (as you would NOT be mounting the fan off of the crankshaft on an 'A' or any of the early V8's).

Below is a picture is the engine I just put in my 32 - has the exact manifold noted above, with the generator and a 32 fan mounted: