The Ford Barn

duke36 · 02-11-2016, 08:29 PM

Some shops are now using nylon lock nuts on the bearings, grade C for higher torques. One explanation is that it's easier to get the exact torque without having to over or under torque to catch a slot for the cotters. Any thoughts on this?

Gary WA · 02-11-2016, 11:28 PM

I would not use them!

Kahuna · 02-11-2016, 11:35 PM

I'm with Gary. Don't use them. Find a new shop.

tbirdtbird · 02-12-2016, 12:40 AM

" without having to over or under torque to catch a slot for the cotters."

You never have to do this if you do it the correct way. Torque to spec. If cotter window does not line up, remove nut and grind a little off the base of the nut. May take a couple tries. Use side of grinding wheel. Do it right, Nylocks do not belong inside a motor. Get ARP nuts

1Tudoor · 02-12-2016, 10:02 AM

[QUOTE=tbirdtbird;1240042]" without having to over or under torque to catch a slot for the cotters."

Nylocks do not belong inside a motor. Get ARP nuts

DITTO

wrndln · 02-12-2016, 10:15 AM

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

What I do if the slots on the nuts don't line up, is swap them with other nuts - no grinding them down. Of course, the last one or two are hard if 6 main or 8 rod nuts are all you have. I have plenty from other engines, so swapping them is not a problem. I agree with most of the other responders - don't use Nylocks in a motor or for anyplace else on a model A.
Rusty Nelson

Jim Brierley · 02-12-2016, 12:09 PM

Castleated nuts have only about 3-4 full threads, I do not use them. ARP nuts are the best and they will not back off when tight, no loctite is needed but use it if it makes you feel good.

George Miller · 02-12-2016, 01:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rip94611

Some shops are now using nylon lock nuts on the bearings, grade C for higher torques. One explanation is that it's easier to get the exact torque without having to over or under torque to catch a slot for the cotters. Any thoughts on this?

Nylon and hot oil do not work. Use nuts that are made for rods, like the cars today use. They will not come loose. I would find a new engine builder.

duke36 · 02-12-2016, 02:11 PM

Are the ARP the American racing 12 point nuts? Concur about the builders. We've been talking to some and the opinions seem to vary. Very much appreciate the feedback.

Bruce Lancaster · 02-12-2016, 02:50 PM

And on the torque...doesn't the nylon going over the threads need significant torque that does not contribute at all to tightness at the thread? I would think that torquing a nylock nut would give numbers that could not reasonably be interpreted.

tbirdtbird · 02-12-2016, 10:09 PM

"Are the ARP the American racing 12 point nuts"
yes
they have a very good website
get anything you want

http://arp-bolts.com/kits/Bulk.php?P...*&D=3&P=*&WS=*

Kohnke Rebabbitting · 02-12-2016, 10:50 PM

Oil the threads.

Pull the Main bolts to 80 foot pounds, and then the Key hole if you need to, and forget it.

If the threads give up, they are not any good anyway.

Herm.

Marvin/TN · 02-12-2016, 10:56 PM

Don't know that I would use Nylon but think steel locking nuts would work ok. They use a lot of them to hold airplanes together but then they also use Fibre self locking as well, All depends where and how hot the area is.

marc silva · 02-12-2016, 11:08 PM

When you buy ARP nuts for a Model A rod for example,do you have to specify or ask that they are for a Model a rod or just the size and pitch? I am getting ready to assemble an engine.

tbirdtbird · 02-13-2016, 12:18 AM

just the size and pitch

Mike V. Florida · 02-13-2016, 12:34 AM

There was no torque specification back in the day so use what you are comfortable with.

Pete · 02-13-2016, 02:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by George Miller

Nylon and hot oil do not work. Use nuts that are made for rods, like the cars today use. They will not come loose. I would find a new engine builder.

Roger on that.
The modern nuts are called Marsden nuts.
Available at most auto parts stores.

I won't bother explaining how they work because that has been covered here and on the early V8 section poofteen times.

Synchro909 · 02-13-2016, 05:24 AM

What are ARP nuts?
I've been using Nulock nuts for years - many thousands of miles with no problem. I'll be using them again in the engine I'm building now.
Herm,
80 ft pounds on the mains? All the literature I have seen says 45. That's what I have been using again, with no trouble. Big ends - 35, Mains - 45 and head - 55 ftlbs.

tbirdtbird · 02-13-2016, 05:27 AM

see #12

duke36 · 02-13-2016, 03:16 PM

The Marsden's as stated by PETE are shown in the photos from a co. , LOK-MOR, and have the slots cut in the sides; the ARP have 12 point or hex flanged nuts listed. I guess one could use either style or just stay with the stock castle nuts. Interesting the range of preferences.

02-11-2016, 11:35 PM	#3
Kahuna Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: NorCal Posts: 2,617	Re: Main, rod bearings bolt nuts I'm with Gary. Don't use them. Find a new shop.

02-12-2016, 12:40 AM	#4
tbirdtbird BANNED Join Date: May 2012 Location: inside your RAM Posts: 3,134	Re: Main, rod bearings bolt nuts " without having to over or under torque to catch a slot for the cotters." You never have to do this if you do it the correct way. Torque to spec. If cotter window does not line up, remove nut and grind a little off the base of the nut. May take a couple tries. Use side of grinding wheel. Do it right, Nylocks do not belong inside a motor. Get ARP nuts __________________ '31 180A

02-12-2016, 10:02 AM	#5
1Tudoor Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2016 Location: Upstate in NY's beautifull hills Posts: 173	Re: Main, rod bearings bolt nuts [QUOTE=tbirdtbird;1240042]" without having to over or under torque to catch a slot for the cotters." Nylocks do not belong inside a motor. Get ARP nuts DITTO

02-12-2016, 10:15 AM	#6
wrndln Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Lakeville, MN Posts: 5,297	Re: Main, rod bearings bolt nuts Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) What I do if the slots on the nuts don't line up, is swap them with other nuts - no grinding them down. Of course, the last one or two are hard if 6 main or 8 rod nuts are all you have. I have plenty from other engines, so swapping them is not a problem. I agree with most of the other responders - don't use Nylocks in a motor or for anyplace else on a model A. Rusty Nelson

02-12-2016, 12:09 PM	#7
Jim Brierley Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Temecula, CA Posts: 4,251	Re: Main, rod bearings bolt nuts Castleated nuts have only about 3-4 full threads, I do not use them. ARP nuts are the best and they will not back off when tight, no loctite is needed but use it if it makes you feel good.

02-11-2016, 08:29 PM	#1
duke36 Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2015 Posts: 1,425	Main, rod bearings bolt nuts Some shops are now using nylon lock nuts on the bearings, grade C for higher torques. One explanation is that it's easier to get the exact torque without having to over or under torque to catch a slot for the cotters. Any thoughts on this?

02-12-2016, 02:11 PM	#9
duke36 Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2015 Posts: 1,425	Re: Main, rod bearings bolt nuts Are the ARP the American racing 12 point nuts? Concur about the builders. We've been talking to some and the opinions seem to vary. Very much appreciate the feedback.

02-12-2016, 02:50 PM	#10
Bruce Lancaster Member Emeritus Join Date: May 2010 Location: Madison, NJ Posts: 5,230	Re: Main, rod bearings bolt nuts And on the torque...doesn't the nylon going over the threads need significant torque that does not contribute at all to tightness at the thread? I would think that torquing a nylock nut would give numbers that could not reasonably be interpreted.

02-12-2016, 10:09 PM	#11
tbirdtbird BANNED Join Date: May 2012 Location: inside your RAM Posts: 3,134	Re: Main, rod bearings bolt nuts "Are the ARP the American racing 12 point nuts" yes they have a very good website get anything you want http://arp-bolts.com/kits/Bulk.php?P...&D=3&P=&WS=* __________________ '31 180A

02-12-2016, 10:50 PM	#12
Kohnke Rebabbitting Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: 60615,330th Ave.,Clare, Iowa, 50524 Posts: 1,457	Re: Main, rod bearings bolt nuts Oil the threads. Pull the Main bolts to 80 foot pounds, and then the Key hole if you need to, and forget it. If the threads give up, they are not any good anyway. Herm.

02-12-2016, 10:56 PM	#13
Marvin/TN Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Chattanooga, TN area Posts: 832	Re: Main, rod bearings bolt nuts Don't know that I would use Nylon but think steel locking nuts would work ok. They use a lot of them to hold airplanes together but then they also use Fibre self locking as well, All depends where and how hot the area is.

02-12-2016, 11:08 PM	#14
marc silva Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2013 Location: santa rosa ca Posts: 260	Re: Main, rod bearings bolt nuts When you buy ARP nuts for a Model A rod for example,do you have to specify or ask that they are for a Model a rod or just the size and pitch? I am getting ready to assemble an engine.

02-13-2016, 12:18 AM	#15
tbirdtbird BANNED Join Date: May 2012 Location: inside your RAM Posts: 3,134	Re: Main, rod bearings bolt nuts just the size and pitch __________________ '31 180A

02-13-2016, 12:34 AM	#16
Mike V. Florida Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Florida between Sarasota and TampaSouth Florida Posts: 14,054	Re: Main, rod bearings bolt nuts There was no torque specification back in the day so use what you are comfortable with. __________________ What's right about America is that although we have a mess of problems, we have great capacity - intellect and resources - to do some thing about them. - Henry Ford II

02-13-2016, 05:24 AM	#18
Synchro909 Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2014 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 8,044	Re: Main, rod bearings bolt nuts What are ARP nuts? I've been using Nulock nuts for years - many thousands of miles with no problem. I'll be using them again in the engine I'm building now. Herm, 80 ft pounds on the mains? All the literature I have seen says 45. That's what I have been using again, with no trouble. Big ends - 35, Mains - 45 and head - 55 ftlbs. __________________ I sometimes wonder what happened to the people who asked me for directions. Even at my age, I still like to look at a young, attractive woman but I can't really remember why.

02-13-2016, 05:27 AM	#19
tbirdtbird BANNED Join Date: May 2012 Location: inside your RAM Posts: 3,134	Re: Main, rod bearings bolt nuts see #12 __________________ '31 180A

02-13-2016, 03:16 PM	#20
duke36 Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2015 Posts: 1,425	Re: Main, rod bearings bolt nuts The Marsden's as stated by PETE are shown in the photos from a co. , LOK-MOR, and have the slots cut in the sides; the ARP have 12 point or hex flanged nuts listed. I guess one could use either style or just stay with the stock castle nuts. Interesting the range of preferences.