Cam/Tappet compatibility

[diomed]

Hello,

I have a couple questions about the compatibility of cams and tappets. When ordering parts, I assumed everything would just work but searching FordBarn threads got me confused.

I purchased a set of Colony double-lock tappets and also a set of Brattons house brand single lock tappets. I tried to use the Brattons single lock and they were so tight that I was finding it very difficult to adjust them without rounding the heads off the adjusting bolt. Even though the double-lock is more cumbersome, I think I'd like to use them

Extra info, the base diameter on the Colony double-locks is .995 and the Brattons single lock is 1.15. The Colonys seem a bit small, thats pretty much the reason for this post. I'd rather buy a new cam now than wipe out what I have due to incompatibility

Could somebody take a look at the pictures and help A) Identify the cam, and B) tell me definitively if the double-lock tappets will work with my cam







Thank you,

kris

[darrylkmc]

domed, This is a link to Vince Falfers Ford Garage which explains adjustable lifters http://www.fordgarage.com/pages/valv...comparison.htm. Darryl in Fairbanks

[hardtimes]

Hey diomed,
Well , the cam pictured is a B cam. You will find a 'pump' lobe towards the rear.
If given the choice of using one of the two pictured lifters, I'd chose the single lock with the larger foot.
BTW, I do not believe that you will round off the corners of the adj nut, as they are , of necessity, HARDENED ! Probably harder than most hand tools.

Amendment: I take back that this is a B cam. Looks to be a FIVE bearing cam. If so, it is for a very early A 5 bearing block, but can be used in a later three bearing block, as I been instructed. Hope you have better eyes than me !!

[Pete]

That is not a "B" cam. It has no fuel pump lobe and 2 too many journals.
It is a 28 cam.
Use the lifters with the larger face if it is a stock grind.

[diomed]

I figured it was a '28 cam. The block is a 3 cam journal March 1930 block, so somebody has been in it before.

The bolt heads did round off on a couple of those single lock lifters. The only wrenches I could get on it were open ended, so I used relatively new Snap-On wrenchs. The bolts are incredibly tight. I have the engine on an engine stand and it was all I could do to turn the bolts.

What application are these <1" base diameter Colony lifters made for? Seems like they were made in error. I can't believe a vendor would even sell them if they won't work on anything.

[Pete]

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Originally Posted by diomed

What application are these <1" base diameter Colony lifters made for? Seems like they were made in error. I can't believe a vendor would even sell them if they won't work on anything.

The 1 inch lifters will run on any cam designed to run on 1 inch lifters.
Most aftermarket performance cams are designed for 1 inch lifters, BUT, YOU NEED TO KNOW BEFORE ASSEMBLING PARTS.
Talk to the guy that ground the cam.

[diomed]

Thanks Pete. This cam was in the engine when I bought the car, no idea where it came from. I've been thinking of upgrading the cam, might as well while it's apart.

Thanks again for the info.

Originally Posted by Pete

The 1 inch lifters will run on any cam designed to run on 1 inch lifters.
Most aftermarket performance cams are designed for 1 inch lifters, BUT, YOU NEED TO KNOW BEFORE ASSEMBLING PARTS.
Talk to the guy that ground the cam.

[40 Deluxe]

Could you just match the diameter of the old lifters that were in the engine?

[colin1928]

If it has been reground it will almost be fine with the 1" lifter
you can check by bluing the contact patch

[Dave in MN]

Slightly off topic: If the valves are a bit too long, you will get into the adjustment range of the Colony single lock that is brutally tight. When I run into this problem, I shorten the valves .050". I will often see this problem on a B engine or an A with the valve seats well worn where the valve sits low on/in the block.
Good Day!

[John Stone]

I agree about the Bratton's single lock lifters tightness. Bought a couple sets and ruined my good tappet wrench. Checked on the bench and several took 18 ft-lbs to break loose. And yes, I did round off some when adjusting them. Called Bratton's and they were nice and sent me some replacements but those were just as bad. The offset thread is a little off. Have gone back to Colony single lockers.

The small foot gives a different lift profile than the bigger one. They start at the same place and end at the maximum but they lift slower and close faster. The area under the curve should be maximized and the bigger foot gives that. That give you technical guys something to think about.

[Tom Wesenberg]

I guess if someone has the tight adjustment bolts they should use a 6 point socket and remove the adjustment bolt to oil the threads before installing them. I'd think that would make them easier to use once they are installed. If oil isn't enough, then I'd try antiseize on the threads.

[John Stone]

Originally Posted by Tom Wesenberg

I guess if someone has the tight adjustment bolts they should use a 6 point socket and remove the adjustment bolt to oil the threads before installing them. I'd think that would make them easier to use once they are installed. If oil isn't enough, then I'd try antiseize on the threads.

Tried that, didn't work.

[diomed]

I think I'm going to have to do some more measuring and verifying before I figure out exactly what I'm going to do.

Thanks for the info, fellas.

[diomed]

It's good to hear it's not just me. It seemed like no matter how precise I was with wrench placement, I was still rounding corners.

Originally Posted by John Stone

Tried that, didn't work.

[rocket1]

B cams used tappet number b-6500,base dia. 1.187,nobody makes them.Egge machine makes part#f200mb base dia. 1.140 phone # (866) 996-3443

[diomed]

Thanks, I didn't even think of Egge. I'll give them a call.

Originally Posted by rocket1

B cams used tappet number b-6500,base dia. 1.187,nobody makes them.Egge machine makes part#f200mb base dia. 1.140 phone # (866) 996-3443

[hardtimes]

Originally Posted by diomed

Thanks, I didn't even think of Egge. I'll give them a call.

Hey diomed,
Today , I went out to shed to measure the lifters that I used in my current B short block. The foot measured 1.289 diam. That would easily take worry of tooo small a lifter foot away..with any cam ! These early Chrysler (six cyl) lifters are single lock and easily adjusted. Two ways to use this lifter, which is 'FATTER' (bore diam) than stock A/B lifters. Either have the lifter machined to A or B lifter bore...or...buy a custom reamer and run it once thru your worn A/B lifter bore...then use the larger bore lifter as is.

Ok, there is a 'little' work involved , but the result is/was well worth the $,time and effort. There is a great machinist locally (Dan McEachern), who used to sell this bigfoot lifter until he ran out of stock. He will still machine these for you, if you have your own. Pete, here on the barn prepared my lifters for use with a cam that he grinds....then matched lifter/cam to work together ! Amazing how the lifter turns as it works in this antique B

Oh, got to give Kudos to a barn buddy here also, as he loaned me his special bore reamer....made for this particular job !!

Just saying that while you have your engine apart....that there are other options and choice is good, eh !

[diomed]

Those Chrysler lifters seem like a great solution for a worn block. I've been measuring my block a lot and none of the lifter bores or came bores are off at all. I expected some to be off, but everything falls right in spec. I don't really want to bore out the lifter bores when the block is fine. I have been doing what Tom suggested and taking apart the tappets, oiling and running them down with a 6 point socket. When I get time to get back on the engine, I'm going to give the single locks another shot.

Thanks for the Chrysler info, I'll be storing that in my memory.

Originally Posted by hardtimes

Hey diomed,
Today , I went out to shed to measure the lifters that I used in my current B short block. The foot measured 1.289 diam. That would easily take worry of tooo small a lifter foot away..with any cam ! These early Chrysler (six cyl) lifters are single lock and easily adjusted. Two ways to use this lifter, which is 'FATTER' (bore diam) than stock A/B lifters. Either have the lifter machined to A or B lifter bore...or...buy a custom reamer and run it once thru your worn A/B lifter bore...then use the larger bore lifter as is.

Ok, there is a 'little' work involved , but the result is/was well worth the $,time and effort. There is a great machinist locally (Dan McEachern), who used to sell this bigfoot lifter until he ran out of stock. He will still machine these for you, if you have your own. Pete, here on the barn prepared my lifters for use with a cam that he grinds....then matched lifter/cam to work together ! Amazing how the lifter turns as it works in this antique B

Oh, got to give Kudos to a barn buddy here also, as he loaned me his special bore reamer....made for this particular job !!

Just saying that while you have your engine apart....that there are other options and choice is good, eh !

[just plain bill]

Originally Posted by hardtimes

Hey diomed,
Today , I went out to shed to measure the lifters that I used in my current B short block. The foot measured 1.289 diam. That would easily take worry of tooo small a lifter foot away..with any cam ! These early Chrysler (six cyl) lifters are single lock and easily adjusted. Two ways to use this lifter, which is 'FATTER' (bore diam) than stock A/B lifters. Either have the lifter machined to A or B lifter bore...or...buy a custom reamer and run it once thru your worn A/B lifter bore...then use the larger bore lifter as is.

Ok, there is a 'little' work involved , but the result is/was well worth the $,time and effort. There is a great machinist locally (Dan McEachern), who used to sell this bigfoot lifter until he ran out of stock. He will still machine these for you, if you have your own. Pete, here on the barn prepared my lifters for use with a cam that he grinds....then matched lifter/cam to work together ! Amazing how the lifter turns as it works in this antique B

Oh, got to give Kudos to a barn buddy here also, as he loaned me his special bore reamer....made for this particular job !!

Just saying that while you have your engine apart....that there are other options and choice is good, eh !

What block are you using the Chrysler lifters in? I installed a set last year in an A block and although I turned them down to the suggested 1.240 I still had one bind on the cam bearing boss in the block. Also the lifter is .330 longer, did you shorten the valve. I used the adjusting screws out of an old set of single lock lifters and made them work