fair price for a 1932 counterbalanced crank??

[jambottle]

fresh from machine shop.ready for babbit.p0erfect condition. Thanks Chris

[Kevin in NJ]

Yea, how do you know it was ground right?

What is the radius at the edges?
How close is the flywheel center to the crank center?
Are the mains all ground on the same centers?
Has it been crack checked?
How accurately is it balanced?

The value is very dependent on how confident the crank was done right. Too many are done right even from some better shops. If the shop very rarely does A cranks then it is less likely they would waste the grinding wheel to radius it right.

Any way stuff to consider.

[Kohnke Rebabbitting]

"Agree"

[jambottle]

Originally Posted by Kevin in NJ

Yea, how do you know it was ground right?

What is the radius at the edges?
How close is the flywheel center to the crank center?
Are the mains all ground on the same centers?
Has it been crack checked?
How accurately is it balanced?

The value is very dependent on how confident the crank was done right. Too many are done right even from some better shops. If the shop very rarely does A cranks then it is less likely they would waste the grinding wheel to radius it right.

Any way stuff to consider.

OKAY my friend; lets say it met all your standards,what is it worth?

[Kevin in NJ]

I do not have a perfect answer on value.

My base would be the cost of aquiring a decent crank and then getting machined to my standards. You should contact a shop with A experience like J&M Machine and ask how much to do a crank. Normal shops that grind cranks often have troubles doing modern cranks and no hope on an A crank. There is a pretty big hit on the grinding wheel to change the radius to properly do an A crank. So they do it with a modern radius and then wonder why the crank breaks.

I must add that a properly done crank is only part of the equation. The flywheel needs to be mounted and the unit balanced together as it is unlikely that the center is perfect. So it will still need work after you get just a crank.

That is, of course, assuming you are seeking an engine that runs like factory or better. Always remember building an A or B engine is almost the same as building a race car engine. It demands the same level of precision to get back to factory.

So back to value.
It partly comes down to your pocket book. Some are willing and able to plunk down $1000 for a new crank. My viewpoint is that crank is somewhere in-between. I believe cranks of that sort have sold for around $500 + or - (mostly +). Is that a good value? Well value is up to the person and how much your trust the crank is actually as good as they say. How willing is the guy to let a third person measure it on a table to confirm all the measurements? Some shops wont do work for you if you tell them you are going to check their work so I guess they don't trust their work.

[Charlie Stephens]

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What is the name of the person or company that did the crank? The people here should know the good ones. If they don't know the person or company that did the crank then I would worry.

Charlie Stephens

[hardtimes]

Hey Kevin,
Nice write up and great advice/info, IMO !
Just recently, I had to pay the shop owner $250. to recut his crank stone to do grinding on my C crank ! And, that was only ONE process on this crank.

However, I know of several guys who have 'reground B/C cranks' that they will sell to me, as they no longer have use for them. But, applying Kevins guidelines herein...buyer beware even for $5oo or less. My C crank has a racing history and came cheaply enough to invest several hundred $ and get what's wanted.

BTW Kevin, where can I buy new $1000 crank

[SteveB31]

So Kevin, you seem to imply that nobody knows how to grind cranks. Thousands of Model A engines are rebuilt every year just fine. I understand that you might have seen some reground wrong, but that doesn't mean they are all done wrong.

[colin1928]

IMO the price will vary on many factors the year 1932 had removable weight a pain to work with but made for a smooth revving engine
33/34 had integral weight much easier to machine =less work lower cost
how much has it been machined if it is only 0.010" under that's good = better price $
if it is 0.040" or 0.050" under not so good = less $
has it been crack tested ?
and as everyone else here says the quality of the machine work
2 examples I have 1 1933 that I paid $650.00 for had std journals and crack tested fine and cleaned up at 0.010" mains and 0.020" big ends to me it is a $1200.00-$1500.00 crank
2nd I have 1 1932 crank with weights that is already 0.040" and 0.050" and has 0.008" bend it will need to go to 0.060" or more to plus straightening before it is usable (hard to find inserts beyond 0.060" so Babbitt only or machine to A size?)
to me it is a $50.00-$200.00 crank

[jambottle]

Originally Posted by colin1928

IMO the price will vary on many factors the year 1932 had removable weight a pain to work with but made for a smooth revving engine
33/34 had integral weight much easier to machine =less work lower cost
how much has it been machined if it is only 0.010" under that's good = better price $
if it is 0.040" or 0.050" under not so good = less $
has it been crack tested ?
and as everyone else here says the quality of the machine work
2 examples I have 1 1933 that I paid $650.00 for had std journals and crack tested fine and cleaned up at 0.010" mains and 0.020" big ends to me it is a $1200.00-$1500.00 crank
2nd I have 1 1932 crank with weights that is already 0.040" and 0.050" and has 0.008" bend it will need to go to 0.060" or more to plus straightening before it is usable (hard to find inserts beyond 0.060" so Babbitt only or machine to A size?)
to me it is a $50.00-$200.00 crank

I thought both my cranks(counter weight are not add ons) cam out of late 1932 cars,i will have to check the serial numbers.can you explain the radius that was mentioned by Kevin.is it different for insert berings as apposed to babbit.Thanks chris

[DavidG]

While I am basically ignorant of things Model A, I've a fair amount of experience with '32-'34 fours and I take exception to the statement made above that late '32 c/b crankshafts had add-on weights as opposed to integral weights on '33-'34 crankshafts. Of the numerous '32s I've had with c/b crankshafts not a single one had add-on weights.

[Kevin in NJ]

Originally Posted by SteveB31

So Kevin, you seem to imply that nobody knows how to grind cranks. Thousands of Model A engines are rebuilt every year just fine. I understand that you might have seen some reground wrong, but that doesn't mean they are all done wrong.

Very few cranks are ground right. Most are ground wrong and the people really have no clue of how an engine is supposed to run right so they are happy with a mediocure engine. Of course, the vast majority of guys think that 45 MPH is the top speed of the Model A so what do they know about how the A really can drive.

I have to point out the problem of the A is compliation of big and small errors in the bulding of their mechanicals. Lots of little things that add up strange vibrations, poor running (vapor lock), and poor handling.

What is missing from most peoples A restoration knowledge is the level of accuracy needed to build the mechanical parts. Ford built to .001" or better accuracy in many critical areas and they are restored to .005" or worse.

I make my assesment of the cranks based on other peoples experiences, my own experiences and what my brother learned as he learned about using his crank grinder. A discussion with the owner of the crank grinder company confirmed how dismal the situation really is. Mains out of center, improper radius, random throws lengths on the rods and just the wrong diameters are more a norm. Then to get a 'just and old 4 cylinder engine" crank so why care.

To answer another question, I believe the radius of the corners is dependant on the type of metal. Modern cranks use a different radius then the old metals.

[George Miller]

Radius is very important. Stress cracks start in a sharp corner. The model A with its 3 main flimsy crank needs a big radius on the journals. The crank is flexing when it is running. All the power from all four cylinders goes through the number 4 journal. With a small radius depending how hard you push it and how many miles you drive it will break at number 4 journal.

If you use the proper radius it will last as long as you need it.

The cranks that I have check were not that good, I,m sure some one does it right, just have not found them yet. The last one of mine I done in my engine lathe with a potable crank grinder from my Dads garage. As a young man I ground cranks with a big crank grinder, wish I still had that.

Problems that were found were run out at center main, run out at flywheel flange, Small radius on crank journals, not indexed properly.

[jambottle]

Hi Kevin; i read your tech hints on your website.very informative.especially crank grinding.what would it cost me for you to test one of my,already machined, cranks for tolerances.then we could have our machinest modify or correct his methods or machines to produce a reliable A crankshaft.(not to make any modifications ;just test for specs.)Thanks chris