The Ford Barn

fins2nv · 01-03-2015, 06:34 PM

I have been taking my time over the past couple of weeks, but I have finally installed a Mitchell transmission in my '30 coupe. The transmission went in fine. The rear end went back in fine. Everything was going great. I was trying to finish hooking everything up today and found an issue with my brake pedal.

I put the brake and clutch pedals back on and hooked them up. I stepped on the brake pedal and it didn't want to move so I pushed harder. There was a loud bang and then the pedal moved. I released the pedal and it bound up again and again made a large bang when I pushed it hard.

I had my son push the pedal and I got under the car. What is happening is that the actuator rod (or whatever it's called) that runs from the brake pedal to the stop light switch is sliding under the switch's push button. The bang comes when you depress the brake pedal and the rod slips out from under the switch plunger.

I have no idea why it is doing this. I changed nothing when I disconnected the brake and clutch pedals. Another interesting note is that I had one of those aftermarket brake pedal return springs hooked up before I took the car apart. The spring had a lot of tension. Now, I threw it on just to see what would happen with that installed and it's like way loose.

Is there more than one way to install the clutch and brake pedals on the bellhousing shaft? Do I have them not sitting in the right position or something? I can't figure why it worked fine before and not now.

fins2nv · 01-03-2015, 06:53 PM

In regards to this issue I'm having. Could it have anything to do with the anti-rattlers? I have seen them mentioned before. I thought they were just to hold the brake rods so they don't rattle. When I took the rear end out of the car, I unbolted the anti-rattlers from the radius rods and when I put the rear back in, I just bolted them back on.

Mark DeRoseau · 01-03-2015, 07:38 PM

I found with mine that my brake pedal to cross shaft rod that pushes on the brake light switch had a slight bend in it. When I put it back together after doing my cross shaft bushings I had the bend wrong, it bound as well. Unhook at the pedal and rotate linkage 180 making sure it's still on the face of your brake switch and you should be fine.

pat in Santa Cruz · 01-03-2015, 08:38 PM

do you have the correct rod? It should have a "button" about 5/8th inch diameter on the back of the rod that pushes the switch plunger. A rod from a 28/29 just has a 5/16ths rod to rest against the cross member because the switch is different from a 30/31. If you are using a 29 rod, the diameter of the end is too small and it will slide off the switch plunger.

Purdy Swoft · 01-03-2015, 08:46 PM

The pedal rod is bent . It probably got bent somehow when the transmission was installed. The rod should be perfectly straight, plunger end and all. The pedal rod does not rotate. Remove the clevis pin from the pedal and the service brake cross shaft and remove the pedal rod. If you can't straighten the pedal rod, then replace it. To properly set up the brakes remove all of the brake rod clevis pins at the adjustable end. Prop the brake pedal up at the top of its travel. adjust the pedal rod at the clevis so that there will be no more than a 1/16th gap between the plunger end that meets the brake light switch and the inside back of the center cross member . Connect the clevis end of the pedal shaft to the brake pedal with it propped at the top of its travel. If the brakes are in good adjustment at the wheels, adjust all of the free play out of each brake rod at the clevis end so that the clevis pin will just enter. If you can follow this procedure you will have good brakes that you never knew that yoiu had and the brake pedal will rise to the top each time that it is released. you will no longer need the pedal return spring .

Mitch//pa · 01-03-2015, 08:56 PM

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Purdy i hope you saved those good instructions for adjusting the brake rods on your computer, to eliminate retyping it all the time.

Purdy Swoft · 01-03-2015, 09:18 PM

Thanks Mitch , I guess that I need to. I've probably typed them over a dozen times in the past few years. I've typed them so many times that I think that I'm getting quicker.

Mitch//pa · 01-03-2015, 09:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Purdy Swoft

Thanks Mitch , I guess that I need to. I've probably typed them over a dozen times in the past few years. I've typed them so many times that I think that I'm getting quicker.

i think you typed it 12 times in the past 2 weeks

or at least it seems that way
thanks for sharing good info

fins2nv · 01-03-2015, 11:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark DeRoseau

I found with mine that my brake pedal to cross shaft rod that pushes on the brake light switch had a slight bend in it. When I put it back together after doing my cross shaft bushings I had the bend wrong, it bound as well. Unhook at the pedal and rotate linkage 180 making sure it's still on the face of your brake switch and you should be fine.

Thanks Mark, but I tried that first. I disconnected the rod and turned it over so the other side was up and it still did the same thing. It's almost like the rod is being pulled back so hard that it slips off the brake light plunger and slides underneath it.

Tom Endy · 01-04-2015, 02:25 AM

If your brake pedal and stop light switch were working before you did the installation it is likely the pusher on the end of the rod slipped off the end of the brake switch. It should be an easy task to actuate the switch and put the rod back in place.

Tom Endy

fins2nv · 01-04-2015, 03:41 PM

I have been trying to figure out my problem again today to no avail. Like I said before, everything worked great before I pulled the tranny and rearend.

However, I just looked at new rods that run from the pedal to the cross shaft at Snyder's, Mac's and Bratton's and noticed a big difference between those and mine. They all have a large circular piece at the end of the shaft that pushes in the brake light switch plunger. My rod does not have that. My rod is just flared out a tiny little bit at the end of the shaft. Why doesn't my pedal rod have the large circular piece? I sure don't know. How did it operate before without it? I don't know. Was the piece there before and it broke off and got swept into the garbage? I don't know.

But, it appears to me that if I order a new pedal rod I should be in business again. Obviously there is not enough contact area on the end of my pedal rod to have it hold on the switch plunger.

Tom Wesenberg · 01-04-2015, 03:53 PM

Pictures of what you have would help. It sure sounds like you have the wrong (or broken) rod.

Bob C · 01-04-2015, 06:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pat in Santa Cruz

do you have the correct rod? It should have a "button" about 5/8th inch diameter on the back of the rod that pushes the switch plunger. A rod from a 28/29 just has a 5/16ths rod to rest against the cross member because the switch is different from a 30/31. If you are using a 29 rod, the diameter of the end is too small and it will slide off the switch plunger.

fins2nv, I think Pat already answered your question.

Bob

fins2nv · 01-04-2015, 11:07 PM

Pat and Bob, I just measured the "button" on the end of the rod and it measures one-half inch. The rod is also bent at that end. I ordered a new rod that will be straight and have a larger "button" anyway it looks much larger in the photo. I hope that takes care of my problem. I have had the car for four months and never had a problem with the brakes. The issue started after I put the tranny in and went to hook up the brake pedal. I don't believe I bent the rod when I removed the tranny, but anything is possible I guess.

pat in Santa Cruz · 01-05-2015, 12:55 AM

Thats what I was referring to. The 28/29 rods do not have that circular piece.

Quote:

Originally Posted by fins2nv

I have been trying to figure out my problem again today to no avail. Like I said before, everything worked great before I pulled the tranny and rearend.

However, I just looked at new rods that run from the pedal to the cross shaft at Snyder's, Mac's and Bratton's and noticed a big difference between those and mine. They all have a large circular piece at the end of the shaft that pushes in the brake light switch plunger. My rod does not have that. My rod is just flared out a tiny little bit at the end of the shaft. Why doesn't my pedal rod have the large circular piece? I sure don't know. How did it operate before without it? I don't know. Was the piece there before and it broke off and got swept into the garbage? I don't know.

But, it appears to me that if I order a new pedal rod I should be in business again. Obviously there is not enough contact area on the end of my pedal rod to have it hold on the switch plunger.

Tom Wesenberg · 01-05-2015, 02:47 AM

Pictures would help. Maybe one of use could see something wrong that may not be obvious.

fins2nv · 01-05-2015, 09:39 AM

Tom, sorry but I don't own a camera or a phone with a camera. If one of my sons stops by maybe I can get him to take a photo and help me post it.

Purdy Swoft · 01-05-2015, 11:57 AM

You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink. I told you what the problem is in post # 5. The pedal rod is bent. The pedal rod is suppose to be straight from end to end. It doesn't matter if the plunger end is one half inch or five eighths, if the pedal rod is straight and the plunger isn't bent on the brake light switch. it will work . I shouldn't have went into detail about setting up the brake rods. If the brake pedal doesn't return to the top, there is slack in the brake rods and they are not set up correctly . The brakes can't function at optimum level if the levers and rods aren't right. I was just trying to give helpful info .If you like the brakes like they are, its your car. Disregard my brake rod setup suggestions. either straighten the pedal rod or replace it and it will work as good as it did before you worked on it. I have clamped bent pedal rods in the vise and straightened them by hand .

larrys40 · 01-05-2015, 12:12 PM

I concur with Purdy and Tom Endy... that probably you left the rod in there when you did the job, or removed but it got off center from the stop light switch, and the rod got bent in the process. It could be your rod needs straightening and the stop light switch fixed as well. Their suggestions are right on from experience.

Larry Shepard

fins2nv · 01-05-2015, 01:26 PM

Thanks Purdy and others. I am new to Model As and have a big learning curve. All of your help and suggestions are greatly appreciated.

01-03-2015, 06:34 PM	#1
fins2nv Member Join Date: Aug 2014 Location: Fargo, ND Posts: 73	Stumped by brake pedal I have been taking my time over the past couple of weeks, but I have finally installed a Mitchell transmission in my '30 coupe. The transmission went in fine. The rear end went back in fine. Everything was going great. I was trying to finish hooking everything up today and found an issue with my brake pedal. I put the brake and clutch pedals back on and hooked them up. I stepped on the brake pedal and it didn't want to move so I pushed harder. There was a loud bang and then the pedal moved. I released the pedal and it bound up again and again made a large bang when I pushed it hard. I had my son push the pedal and I got under the car. What is happening is that the actuator rod (or whatever it's called) that runs from the brake pedal to the stop light switch is sliding under the switch's push button. The bang comes when you depress the brake pedal and the rod slips out from under the switch plunger. I have no idea why it is doing this. I changed nothing when I disconnected the brake and clutch pedals. Another interesting note is that I had one of those aftermarket brake pedal return springs hooked up before I took the car apart. The spring had a lot of tension. Now, I threw it on just to see what would happen with that installed and it's like way loose. Is there more than one way to install the clutch and brake pedals on the bellhousing shaft? Do I have them not sitting in the right position or something? I can't figure why it worked fine before and not now.

01-03-2015, 06:53 PM	#2
fins2nv Member Join Date: Aug 2014 Location: Fargo, ND Posts: 73	Re: Stumped by brake pedal In regards to this issue I'm having. Could it have anything to do with the anti-rattlers? I have seen them mentioned before. I thought they were just to hold the brake rods so they don't rattle. When I took the rear end out of the car, I unbolted the anti-rattlers from the radius rods and when I put the rear back in, I just bolted them back on.

01-03-2015, 07:38 PM	#3
Mark DeRoseau Member Join Date: Aug 2014 Location: Grand Rapids MI Posts: 45	Re: Stumped by brake pedal I found with mine that my brake pedal to cross shaft rod that pushes on the brake light switch had a slight bend in it. When I put it back together after doing my cross shaft bushings I had the bend wrong, it bound as well. Unhook at the pedal and rotate linkage 180 making sure it's still on the face of your brake switch and you should be fine.

01-03-2015, 08:38 PM	#4
pat in Santa Cruz Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: santa cruz, calif Posts: 2,011	Re: Stumped by brake pedal do you have the correct rod? It should have a "button" about 5/8th inch diameter on the back of the rod that pushes the switch plunger. A rod from a 28/29 just has a 5/16ths rod to rest against the cross member because the switch is different from a 30/31. If you are using a 29 rod, the diameter of the end is too small and it will slide off the switch plunger.

01-03-2015, 08:46 PM	#5
Purdy Swoft Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Alabama Posts: 8,099	Re: Stumped by brake pedal The pedal rod is bent . It probably got bent somehow when the transmission was installed. The rod should be perfectly straight, plunger end and all. The pedal rod does not rotate. Remove the clevis pin from the pedal and the service brake cross shaft and remove the pedal rod. If you can't straighten the pedal rod, then replace it. To properly set up the brakes remove all of the brake rod clevis pins at the adjustable end. Prop the brake pedal up at the top of its travel. adjust the pedal rod at the clevis so that there will be no more than a 1/16th gap between the plunger end that meets the brake light switch and the inside back of the center cross member . Connect the clevis end of the pedal shaft to the brake pedal with it propped at the top of its travel. If the brakes are in good adjustment at the wheels, adjust all of the free play out of each brake rod at the clevis end so that the clevis pin will just enter. If you can follow this procedure you will have good brakes that you never knew that yoiu had and the brake pedal will rise to the top each time that it is released. you will no longer need the pedal return spring .

01-03-2015, 08:56 PM	#6
Mitch//pa BANNED Join Date: May 2010 Location: Bucks County, PA Posts: 11,454	Re: Stumped by brake pedal Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) Purdy i hope you saved those good instructions for adjusting the brake rods on your computer, to eliminate retyping it all the time.

01-03-2015, 09:18 PM	#7
Purdy Swoft Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Alabama Posts: 8,099	Re: Stumped by brake pedal Thanks Mitch , I guess that I need to. I've probably typed them over a dozen times in the past few years. I've typed them so many times that I think that I'm getting quicker.

01-04-2015, 02:25 AM	#10
Tom Endy Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Southern California Posts: 3,168	Re: Stumped by brake pedal If your brake pedal and stop light switch were working before you did the installation it is likely the pusher on the end of the rod slipped off the end of the brake switch. It should be an easy task to actuate the switch and put the rod back in place. Tom Endy

01-04-2015, 03:41 PM	#11
fins2nv Member Join Date: Aug 2014 Location: Fargo, ND Posts: 73	Re: Stumped by brake pedal I have been trying to figure out my problem again today to no avail. Like I said before, everything worked great before I pulled the tranny and rearend. However, I just looked at new rods that run from the pedal to the cross shaft at Snyder's, Mac's and Bratton's and noticed a big difference between those and mine. They all have a large circular piece at the end of the shaft that pushes in the brake light switch plunger. My rod does not have that. My rod is just flared out a tiny little bit at the end of the shaft. Why doesn't my pedal rod have the large circular piece? I sure don't know. How did it operate before without it? I don't know. Was the piece there before and it broke off and got swept into the garbage? I don't know. But, it appears to me that if I order a new pedal rod I should be in business again. Obviously there is not enough contact area on the end of my pedal rod to have it hold on the switch plunger.

01-04-2015, 03:53 PM	#12
Tom Wesenberg Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Mpls, MN Posts: 27,582	Re: Stumped by brake pedal Pictures of what you have would help. It sure sounds like you have the wrong (or broken) rod.

01-04-2015, 11:07 PM	#14
fins2nv Member Join Date: Aug 2014 Location: Fargo, ND Posts: 73	Re: Stumped by brake pedal Pat and Bob, I just measured the "button" on the end of the rod and it measures one-half inch. The rod is also bent at that end. I ordered a new rod that will be straight and have a larger "button" anyway it looks much larger in the photo. I hope that takes care of my problem. I have had the car for four months and never had a problem with the brakes. The issue started after I put the tranny in and went to hook up the brake pedal. I don't believe I bent the rod when I removed the tranny, but anything is possible I guess.

01-05-2015, 02:47 AM	#16
Tom Wesenberg Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Mpls, MN Posts: 27,582	Re: Stumped by brake pedal Pictures would help. Maybe one of use could see something wrong that may not be obvious.

01-05-2015, 09:39 AM	#17
fins2nv Member Join Date: Aug 2014 Location: Fargo, ND Posts: 73	Re: Stumped by brake pedal Tom, sorry but I don't own a camera or a phone with a camera. If one of my sons stops by maybe I can get him to take a photo and help me post it.

01-05-2015, 11:57 AM	#18
Purdy Swoft Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Alabama Posts: 8,099	Re: Stumped by brake pedal You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink. I told you what the problem is in post # 5. The pedal rod is bent. The pedal rod is suppose to be straight from end to end. It doesn't matter if the plunger end is one half inch or five eighths, if the pedal rod is straight and the plunger isn't bent on the brake light switch. it will work . I shouldn't have went into detail about setting up the brake rods. If the brake pedal doesn't return to the top, there is slack in the brake rods and they are not set up correctly . The brakes can't function at optimum level if the levers and rods aren't right. I was just trying to give helpful info .If you like the brakes like they are, its your car. Disregard my brake rod setup suggestions. either straighten the pedal rod or replace it and it will work as good as it did before you worked on it. I have clamped bent pedal rods in the vise and straightened them by hand .

01-05-2015, 12:12 PM	#19
larrys40 Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: St Charles , Missouri Posts: 2,032	Re: Stumped by brake pedal I concur with Purdy and Tom Endy... that probably you left the rod in there when you did the job, or removed but it got off center from the stop light switch, and the rod got bent in the process. It could be your rod needs straightening and the stop light switch fixed as well. Their suggestions are right on from experience. Larry Shepard

01-05-2015, 01:26 PM	#20
fins2nv Member Join Date: Aug 2014 Location: Fargo, ND Posts: 73	Re: Stumped by brake pedal Thanks Purdy and others. I am new to Model As and have a big learning curve. All of your help and suggestions are greatly appreciated.