New versus old valve springs

[bcatcmc]

Simpleton needs help! Early in my `40 era engine build I decided to ditch the 2 piece valve guides and modernise. I purchased a kit to do the upgrade. In my quest to track down a consistent miss, valve spring pressures are on the agenda.

From memory new springs should test out as 50 lb. @ 1.875" Approx. My dimension so far over 4 valves tested retainer to valve guide is around 2.10"giving me a spring pressure of sub 20 lb. I dug out some of my old 2 piece guide springs and at 2.10" are 48 lb ( even a pressure Gramps would be happy with. ). I have been comparing pre to post `49 blocks looking for factory diffrences but can't spot anything As i understand it the only reason for slight variations in dimensions ( retainer to guide ) would be how deep the valve seat were cut ( I can still see the valve heads so I didn`t go .20" deep )

Any suggestions , Purchase new set of old style springs. Shimming .200" plus sounds a bit dodgy ( Moral of story test before /as you instal.)

Also include tip for Newbies don`t type up a post before logging on if your a one finger typist, its painful when it disappears into the vortex

[bcatcmc]

Forgot the pics. Even the spring tester has to be dual purpose these days

The photo with the display lit is the new spring.

[petehoovie]

Originally Posted by bcatcmc

Forgot the pics. Even the spring tester has to be dual purpose these days

The photo with the display lit is the new spring.

[GB SISSON]

I have just been through this whole scenario with new/old/rotator/nonrotator valve springs. I'm guessing the short springs might be for use with the rotator assemblies. I have a long winded post going about assembling an 8ba with a total miss match of parts, but with the enormous outpouring of help I have gotten here, I think we have made all the parts work together as one engine. We won't know for sure til it's completed. Anyhow, I went for springs at 40 lbs and all 16 now are between 39 and 41 lbs. 40 lbs in my ford published manual 'Repairing the Ford V8 engine, 1947'. Maybe you can post a picture of the hardware you have been using with those short springs. Best of luck, GB

[cadillac512]

It does sound as if you have the late "rotator" type springs but the early retainers. The early springs are longer and will fix your mismatch. That's the way I'd go.

[40coe]

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I always check the actual height of each spring with the valve installed on the seat and the spring retainer on the valve stem. you can do this with a small spring on the stem
to hold up the spring retainer, then use a pair of veneer caliper's to get the height. The height can very slightly depending on the seat grind, valve length and spring retainer. Add the amount of shim to get the desired spring pressure. I set mine at 50lbs. I prefer the Zepher springs. Best of luck.

[bcatcmc]

Hey 40coe,

Sounds like you have been looking over my shoulder, test procedure anyway, I will check out a few more comments ,probably ending up visiting Mr Van Pelt

[38 coupe]

Why purchase new springs? Finish testing your longer old ones and if all are within spec use them.

[bcatcmc]

Not many survived the controlled demolition getting the old valve gear out.

[Bored&Stroked]

Check with Thirdgen and Mac VanPelt and see what they have for valve springs. You don't need a lot of spring pressure and they should be able to set you up with the proper longer springs.

Question: Is this a stock style build, a high-performance build or what? Kind of hard to recommend anything when I don't know what the overall package is.

[bcatcmc]

As indicated earlier the engine will be non road going, on a purpose built stand just something I can sit back in my rocker ( not quite ready for that ) that I can admire the sight and sound. A prerequisite must start like a fight and idle the smoothest I can get out of it ( might even extend the throttle so I don`t have to get up.

[40coe]

Hi bcatcmc, just curious what valves you might be using? I know the location of the grove for the keepers of the spring retainer can very. I use Chevy exhaust valves. I do shorten the top of stem a bit so i have room for adjustable lifters.
Any chance you know Bill Jansen a fellow Auzie?

[petehoovie]

Originally Posted by 40coe

Hi bcatcmc, just curious what valves you might be using? I know the location of the grove for the keepers of the spring retainer can very. I use Chevy exhaust valves. I do shorten the top of stem a bit so i have room for adjustable lifters.
Any chance you know Bill Jansen a fellow Auzie?

[bcatcmc]

Thanks Pete,
As stated I originally purchased a kit from Speedway valves, springs retainers, locks, ect. Looks like I ended up with rotator springs until just now I didn`t know what a rotator was until I checked out a pic of blue motor ( GB Sisson) that's when the penny dropped It all came into focus . Sorry don`t know the fella mentioned.

[38 coupe]

The kit must have had the wrong springs in it since it also came with the valves, retainers, and locks. I would check if there is anyone else in the area with decent used springs to save you the cost of purchasing new.
I get it about "controlled demolition" when disassembling a crusty flathead. I hang out at a friends shop about once a week to get my fair share of abuse. At one point we were getting a good looking set of old adjustable lifters out of a crusty motor and quickly escalated to torching the valves and springs out of the way.

[40coe]

Van pelt is a great place. Also check out Reds headers for engine parts.

[flatford8]

I have a stationary engine that I like to sit and listen to it run......I may steal your idea for the hand held throttle from my chair!.......Mark

[petehoovie]

Originally Posted by flatford8

I have a stationary engine that I like to sit and listen to it run......I may steal your idea for the hand held throttle from my chair!.......Mark

[Ol' Ron]

I uz the old ones with a .060" shim. works well for a cam with 350" lift or lass.
Gramps

[bcatcmc]

Hi,
Just a quick question that might wrap this thread up, when I get the springs sorted I want to do a light lap of the valve seats. When I originaly lapped them no way would the new lap stick ,suction cap grip the valves ( recessed heads ) I ended up using sticky backed velcro, Quite a pain. They must be semi SS as a large button magnet hopeless , any suggestions?