The Ford Barn

bbook · 10-24-2014, 01:09 AM

I was having problems in my 36 1.5 ton with the starting binding up, so I bought a new starter with the newer style Bendix. It bound up even more often, so I went back to the old starter but continue have problems. With some research I find that there is an "L" bracket from the starter to the oil pan that isn't on my starter. Is that bracket just for grounding or is it a critical item to support the starter and potentially help with the binding problem?

scooder · 10-24-2014, 01:33 AM

It is a support bracket for the starter, without one the starter gradually drops at the brush end tipping the gear end up, this commonly causes the starter to stick.
Martin.

TomO · 10-24-2014, 10:08 AM

If you still have the 36 engine, you may have to make your own. The reproductions don't work with the 21 stud engines.

AnthonyG · 10-24-2014, 10:34 AM

Quote:

If you still have the 36 engine, you may have to make your own. The reproductions don't work with the 21 stud engines.

X2, definitely need that support, it will stick and sometimes not shut off.

scooder · 10-24-2014, 12:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TomO

If you still have the 36 engine, you may have to make your own. The reproductions don't work with the 21 stud engines.

Is that so? Wouldn't think it'd make a difference. What's the issue?
Prey tell,
Martin.

supereal · 10-24-2014, 12:58 PM

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The starter support bracket was made for the '39-'53 as 51A-11150-V8. You can see one on page138 of the C&G online catalog. www.cgfordparts.com The usual reason for a sticking starter, other than a bad drive, is a bent shaft or battered flywheel ring gear.

JM 35 Sedan · 10-24-2014, 01:02 PM

Those rear starter support brackets were introduce in or around 1939. They do help stabilize the back end of the starter motor. They also happen to provide an additional grounding path. I use the standard bracket on my '35's and they may work all the way back to '32. However, I have found some oil pans that have the two starter threaded mounting holes clocked slightly different then most other oil pans in the '33 to '48 range. If you should encounter one of these oil pans, the standard starter bracket will not work w/o modifications. There was a thread posted here about two years ago that explains all of this and has attached pictures. Click URL listed below....

https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showthread.php?t=43762

Now, having said all of this, one of my '35's that has this stock rear starter bracket in place, still has an occasional problem with the Bendix drive locking up against the flywheel teeth. I believe this is being caused by some slightly damaged teeth on the flywheel ring gear. I can usually release this stuck starter drive by rocking the car fore and aft while transmission is in second or third gear.

scooder · 10-24-2014, 01:58 PM

Thanks for that john,
Its a pan related issue rather than a year or 21/24 stud issue.
All clear now.
Martin.

bbook · 10-24-2014, 02:27 PM

Sorry I missed the 2011 thread about the bracket in my research. The commentary and pictures there are quite helpful. It is interesting in the catalogues Joe's shows it for '39-'48 and Mac's shows it for '32-'48. For about $6.00, its worth a try with a new bracket, as most seem to feel it is an important item and modification is an option if it doesn't fit as is. On the other hand, I'm clear that the sticking may be another problem.

Thanks for the help.

koates · 10-25-2014, 01:22 AM

I guess binding up means the starter pinion gear is jamming in mesh with the ring gear. Early 21 stud engines were not fitted with that support bracket and really did not need it. That wont fix your problem. As mentioned before you may have a bent starter shaft or an out of position ring gear or damaged ring gear teeth. A very careful inspection of those items is required. Regards, Kevin.

scooder · 10-25-2014, 06:25 AM

Kevin, interested in your post,
Why would an early 21 stud be less likely to need the support ?
I know they wernt originally fitted to pre mid '38 (as we have leant), that don't meen it won't help. The support bracket has helped (fixed) this problem on other members starters, so could help this one.
Its cheap, it's quick, it's easy, what's not to like?
Martin.

10-24-2014, 01:09 AM	#1
bbook Member Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 84	Sticking Starter I was having problems in my 36 1.5 ton with the starting binding up, so I bought a new starter with the newer style Bendix. It bound up even more often, so I went back to the old starter but continue have problems. With some research I find that there is an "L" bracket from the starter to the oil pan that isn't on my starter. Is that bracket just for grounding or is it a critical item to support the starter and potentially help with the binding problem?

10-24-2014, 01:33 AM	#2
scooder Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Posts: 2,595	Re: Sticking Starter It is a support bracket for the starter, without one the starter gradually drops at the brush end tipping the gear end up, this commonly causes the starter to stick. Martin.

10-24-2014, 10:08 AM	#3
TomO Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 362	Re: Sticking Starter If you still have the 36 engine, you may have to make your own. The reproductions don't work with the 21 stud engines. __________________ TomO

10-24-2014, 12:58 PM	#6
supereal Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2014 Location: Iowa Posts: 1,634	Re: Sticking Starter Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) The starter support bracket was made for the '39-'53 as 51A-11150-V8. You can see one on page138 of the C&G online catalog. www.cgfordparts.com The usual reason for a sticking starter, other than a bad drive, is a bent shaft or battered flywheel ring gear.

10-24-2014, 01:02 PM	#7
JM 35 Sedan Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Near Rising Sun, Maryland Posts: 10,876	Re: Sticking Starter Those rear starter support brackets were introduce in or around 1939. They do help stabilize the back end of the starter motor. They also happen to provide an additional grounding path. I use the standard bracket on my '35's and they may work all the way back to '32. However, I have found some oil pans that have the two starter threaded mounting holes clocked slightly different then most other oil pans in the '33 to '48 range. If you should encounter one of these oil pans, the standard starter bracket will not work w/o modifications. There was a thread posted here about two years ago that explains all of this and has attached pictures. Click URL listed below.... https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showthread.php?t=43762 Now, having said all of this, one of my '35's that has this stock rear starter bracket in place, still has an occasional problem with the Bendix drive locking up against the flywheel teeth. I believe this is being caused by some slightly damaged teeth on the flywheel ring gear. I can usually release this stuck starter drive by rocking the car fore and aft while transmission is in second or third gear. __________________ *John* *"Never give up on what you really want to do. The person with big dreams is more powerful than one with all the facts". Albert Einstein* Last edited by JM 35 Sedan; 10-24-2014 at 01:17 PM.

10-24-2014, 01:58 PM	#8
scooder Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Posts: 2,595	Re: Sticking Starter Thanks for that john, Its a pan related issue rather than a year or 21/24 stud issue. All clear now. Martin.

10-24-2014, 02:27 PM	#9
bbook Member Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 84	Re: Sticking Starter Sorry I missed the 2011 thread about the bracket in my research. The commentary and pictures there are quite helpful. It is interesting in the catalogues Joe's shows it for '39-'48 and Mac's shows it for '32-'48. For about $6.00, its worth a try with a new bracket, as most seem to feel it is an important item and modification is an option if it doesn't fit as is. On the other hand, I'm clear that the sticking may be another problem. Thanks for the help.

10-25-2014, 01:22 AM	#10
koates Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Melbourne Australia. Posts: 2,185	Re: Sticking Starter I guess binding up means the starter pinion gear is jamming in mesh with the ring gear. Early 21 stud engines were not fitted with that support bracket and really did not need it. That wont fix your problem. As mentioned before you may have a bent starter shaft or an out of position ring gear or damaged ring gear teeth. A very careful inspection of those items is required. Regards, Kevin.

10-25-2014, 06:25 AM	#11
scooder Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Posts: 2,595	Re: Sticking Starter Kevin, interested in your post, Why would an early 21 stud be less likely to need the support ? I know they wernt originally fitted to pre mid '38 (as we have leant), that don't meen it won't help. The support bracket has helped (fixed) this problem on other members starters, so could help this one. Its cheap, it's quick, it's easy, what's not to like? Martin.