brake shoes

[Matt in Alameda]

I just received rear bonded brake shoes from Mac's...( By the way, I received them 22 days after ordering them, I am in California). The shoes are all the same length...in Tardel's pamphlet he says the short shoe "energizes" the brake system.....Are these shoes I bought going to be less efficient or a problem because they are all the same long length?....thank-you,....Matt in Alameda

[FlatheadTed]

Pre hydraulics had full length shoes 1938,they wont work until they are bedded in

[V8 Bob]

Originally Posted by Matt in Alameda

I just received rear bonded brake shoes from Mac's...( By the way, I received them 22 days after ordering them, I am in California). The shoes are all the same length...in Tardel's pamphlet he says the short shoe "energizes" the brake system.....Are these shoes I bought going to be less efficient or a problem because they are all the same long length?....thank-you,....Matt in Alameda

Tardel's pamphlet? If you mean his book, he is talking about the Bendix duo-servo brake on page 59, chapter 5, you refer to above. This design should have a shorter primary forward lining, and longer secondary rear facing lining. On the Lockheed non-servo brake, both linings can be the same length with no problems, although by design the longer lining is on the forward primary shoe.

[Mart]

Matt, give us a clue - what year and type of brake shoes are you talking about?

[russcc]

Also, as a point of interest, the new material they are lining these shoes with does not stop worth a darn. There are plenty of NOS ones out there that stop great. Try Ray Helgers in RI 401 635 4849.

[Matt in Alameda]

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Vern Tardel sells a booklet on putting 1940-1948 hydraulic brakes on pre 1939 Fords. My car is a 1935 5 Window Coupe. Originally the short shoe goes to the rear and the long to the front. My drums are wayyyy oversize and I found two new drums and need new shoes to fit......I ordered from Macs and what I received was four shoes all the same long length. On my car the backing plates and mechanisms are all from a 1940-1941 Ford. The new drums I have are from a 1946 Ford. ....Matt in Alameda

[JSeery]

Originally Posted by Matt in Alameda

Vern Tardel sells a booklet on putting 1940-1948 hydraulic brakes on pre 1939 Fords. My car is a 1935 5 Window Coupe. Originally the short shoe goes to the rear and the long to the front. My drums are wayyyy oversize and I found two new drums and need new shoes to fit......I ordered from Macs and what I received was four shoes all the same long length. On my car the backing plates and mechanisms are all from a 1940-1941 Ford. The new drums I have are from a 1946 Ford. ....Matt in Alameda

Something doesn't sound right here, aren't we mixing up two different brake designs? The early Ford brake designs were Lockheed style. Later they switched to Bendix style brakes. I'm not an expert on the years of the change over, but that is why I am using F1 brakes because they were the Bendix style. Bendix brakes (see V8 Bob) are self energizing which has the smaller and larger shoes, Lockheed brakes are not self energizing and differences in shoe size should not be an issue.

[JSeery]

From flatheadv8.org:

LOCKHEED ‘39 THROUGH ’48 FORDS AND MERCS: These brakes were designed and manufactured by Lockheed. The shoes are NOT self-energizing. The Lockheed system is a front/rear shoe design with the bottom pivot for each shoe anchored to the backing plate. This design requires more pedal pressure to stop than self-energizing brakes since they rely solely on hydraulic pressure. The front shoes (primary) do most of the stopping and normally use a longer friction band. The rear shoes (secondary) normally use a shorter friction band.

‘39-’48 LINCOLNS AND ’49-’53 FORD/MERC: These are designed and manufactured by the Bendix Corp. They are self energizing (often referred to as duo servo)brakes. The self energizing is caused by the two shoes being linked to each other at the bottom, but are NOT attached to the backing plate (like the Lockheed design is). The top of the primary shoe is moved outward by hydraulic pressure from the wheel cylinder to contact the drum. The rotation of the drum “wedges” the floating primary shoe to move it downward. Since the bottom of the two shoes are not anchored to the backing plate, this rotation movement is transmitted through the rear most shoe where it forces the shoe against the drum. This increases braking substantially and decreases brake pedal effort. This results in considerably more braking force than the sheer hydraulic pressure design used in the earlier Lockheed brakes.

The primary of a Bendix system is still the front shoe in all wheels... just like the Lockheed brakes are. However since the Bendix is self-energizing, the rear (secondary) shoe applies much more stopping than the front (primary) shoe does. The secondary shoe now has the longer friction band and the primary now has the shorter friction band. Now the question is: Are you confused yet?

From the above, sounds like the rear shoe on Locheed brakes could be shorter, but don't see how it would make any difference in their performance.

[Mart]

Matt, you should shorten the linings on two of the shoes and use those at the rear. The material is removed from the pivot end. If there are rivet holes, the shoes are shortened by the pitch of the rivet holes, effectively making the second last rivet hole the last rivet hole.

Mart.

[jake197000]

if you can find anyone to arc your shoes it can make a big difference.we arc all are shoes on the old cars we do.they will need tour drums to do it.